adefwebserver's Journal, 30 June 2018

@Steven Lloyd - I will! And I am grateful that I am sitting here 'debating my weight loss strategy' at 177 pounds rather than my usual 215 :) 

@chrisw77 - Ok taking your advise I put in my food for today and tomorrow (I go back to fasting on Monday) Thanks! 

With a 96 hour fast glycogen stores will get depleted fully also, even if they’re full and lead to a 1lbs gain, chances are you’re not refilling them enough to an extent that will make much of a difference either way due to the depletion from exercise, running + weight lifting. I have more food/carbs consistently then you, but I also workout a lot less than what you do, and don’t have a very active lifestyle. now obviously we can’t be compared, but the point is that you’re going to be using up your glycogen every time you run and lift weights, it may even be depleted fully by that point depending on how long you’ve fasted before/during/after the exercise happens, making glycogen weight basically insignificant, also it’s the constant elevation of blood glucose that’ll contribute to insulin converting sugars to fuel or fat, again, you’re not consuming enough in a total week for that . Carbs have a higher thermic effect, 10%, fats have 0-3%, protein has 20-30% on average. If your consuming more carbs, that equals more calories, (4 per gram, same with protein, fats is 9 per gram) 10% or so of the calories from will be burned off, however as I mentioned, the stress on your body will impact that, meaning, more and more you do, less and less TEF will happen, meaning the calories consumed have more of a chance to not be used/expended through digestion alone, yielding to your total intake, hence more intake weekly. Even if you reverse it, let’s say that you have higher fat with lower carb intake, unless you’ve tried it already? Lipids (fats) provide fuel for aerobic (requires oxygen) exercise, During exercise, the system works the same way. Low level exercise (40-60% of maximal aerobic output) utilizes fat as the preferred fuel for energy... But, there’s also the possibility of gluconeogensis, is process the body can utilize the lactic acid from high intensity activities to help preserve blood glucose levels which are crucial to physiological function. (Also with more body fat, if you’re consuming less carbs/protein/fat, the body can convert stored adipose tissue into other macros, so less carbs/fats/protein eaten= more creates from body fat) Meaning, if your body is holding onto glucose, it’s because of the high intensity of exercise (already on top of the large deficit), meaning, water retention, more weight in the body meaning less weight lost. So those are some things to take into consideration, hope that helps some👍🏻 

It also depends on the nature of the carbs you are eating and the timing of consumption.. All carbs aren't inherently bad..If you stay away from simple carbs and refined and/or processed foods.. and eat complex carbs only... then exercise .. those carbs will fuel the training session, burn off and you can become somewhere in the vicinity of a zero sum game.. Simple carbs , on the other hand will spike your insulin levels and blood chemistry but also drop off rather quickly. This can leave you with less net energy and what is left over from the simple carb intake is then converted to fat. This is counterproductive to goals set and can cause system wide havoc and damage.. Stay with complex carbs only and be sure to back out fiber content to get accurate numbers... You probably already do this but just a reminder..  

@senseiande - Thanks for the info! 

@DEADPOOL12345 - Yes I see the validity in the argument around the effects of the exercise. I did some serious thinking about it after reading your comments. Right now I feel that the 'mental' benefit from it is why I will continue for now. I NEED the feeling that a long run provides. I get tight and lethargic if I don't stress the body out every few days. Same with the weight lifting. I need that feeling of elevated heart rate and exerting energy. So, I'm not really exercising for the weight loss. 

@chrisw77 - I monitor my blood sugar with regular readings. I will start with a 78 reading and do a 5 mile run. When I get back I'm in the mid 60's. Without drinking anything but water, in a few hours, I will bounce back up to the high 70's or the low 80's. I feel this must be "gluconeogenesis" (see: https://bit.ly/2sAOcIO) happening. My brain demands glucose (see: https://bit.ly/2tJB4Cu) after many days of fasting and exercise, I can't imagine where else my body is going to find the glucose if not through gluconeogenesis :) 

@chrisw77 - Also I suck at Keto! I just ate that entire dish from this picture and I now want to eat a bag of potato chips :( I was totally fine until 2:00pm (before I ate anything). Had I not eaten anything today, I would have been fine. But, once food hits my mouth... 

I hear that! I fasted from 8pm last night with goal of 18 hrs. No hunger, got lots of stuff done today, then had the bright idea to cook up a pot of brown rice in my rice cooker. Big mistake! Could smell it cooking @ 11:30 AM. Man, that smelled so good and I wanted some! Cooked up some marinated chicken tenders for my lunch. I ended up eating 1/2 cup rice with tenders and cheese melted in. It was good but not my intended meal. Decided it’s time to reread Going Against The Grain by Melissa Smith. So many issues with agricultural grains and obesity/American diet. No preaching here, but refined grains are linked with a lot of our own man made diseases. 

Bet the salty cheese kicked in your potato chip cravings. Just a thought. 

@Chrisw77 A few things happen in the body. Carbohydrate availability affects more than energy it also affects metabolic biochemistry. When carbs aren’t adequately consumed, either by poor eating habits, reduces energy intake, high protein diets, Starvation or fasting, the body reacts to compensate for the deficit of carbs. This means, only thing left when gluconeogensis happens is, amino acids + triglycerides (adipose tissue/body fat) to form sugars the body needs as fuel. What this means is, it can start to break down lean mass & fat mass, the body has a protein sparing (PS) component to prevent this. Since it doesn’t want to use protein as fuel. However, even if protein is sufficient in the diet PS may not occur since it relies on adequate consumption of carbs. Without PS, breakdown of muscle happens to provide fuel, prolonged affects urther lowers the metabolic rate (metabolism). With lack of carbs, lipids provide work for ATP, but lipid metabolism only yields half the energy as carbs. In low carb diets or insufficient amount of calories, it has nowhere to go, the liver responds by increasing ketone bodies. These ketones enter circulation and are either excreted in urine or build up and negatively affect the pH levels of body fluid. Extreme cases lead to acidosis. Under this state of insufficient carbohydrate metabolism, more fat is mobilized than can be oxidized, producing an incomplete breakdown of fat, only adequate consumption of carbs prevents this phenomenon. This is what low carb diets are referred to as the “ketogenic diet”. 

But pertaining to fasting, an abundance in body fat will be better to lose fat with minimal or no exercise. The leaner someone is, the more problematic it will be and more chance of muscle being broken down, for example I don’t fast, Nothingn against it but it doesn’t suit my lifestyle or preferences, but more so because it will cause me to lose strength, muscle, & feel like crap overall. Another interesting thing is, when fasting it’s better to consume only water, and nothing which has calories or food, This will predominantly allow the body to use adipose tissue for the main fuel source as the fasting component creates the large calorie deficit, so all the stored energy in body fat will be utilized. As long as, no high intensity exercise happens, to prevent muscle breakdown. That’s why someone who (you can look it up) was something like 300-400lbs lost 100lbs of fat without losing muscle and didn’t eat for I think 4 months. But, it is something that can also be dangerous so, that’s something to be aware of as well. Another good example of this here: https://bit.ly/2tUJ7f2 

Saw a study yesterday that showed that there is a big difference in health markers with <50 grams carbs a day as oppose to 70 grams. Heard a active body builder say that carbs should be avoided, but some can be allowed if you really deserve them in relation to heavy duty work outs.  

@Chow moore - Yeah rice would have hit the spot for me crabwise.  

It's crazy how knowledgeable Deadpool is and how he is educating for free. Keep listening to a doctor selling you a book though. 

When people ask me for my opinion, I never recommend not exercising while fasting. The reason is you feel like crap :) The body was meant to move :) I have been fasting for 5 days (or more) a week for months now will no health problems. Take a look at this video: The Science of Fasting: https://amzn.to/2H1enhK They make those people exercise for hours a day at the fasting clinic. I wonder why people think it makes sense to reduce their calories and burn some fat vs. eating no calories and burning fat? Why do they think the "extra food" they eat that day is so important? The metabolism argument falls flat (yes I know people like to quote Dr. Fung saying metabolism CAN change by 40%, but, in normal situations it will only change by 10%. Both statements are true). The metabolism argument is like saying I have to add logs to the fire to get the logs I have on the fire to burn. When the body needs to burn fat it does just that. It doesn't go "Oh I don't have enough energy to burn any fat right now". Yes it will initially try to slow me down, but it also does that after a big meal. This is another reason why I exercise. I am telling my body "Wake up! I want you burning fat, get to work!". I don't want to lay around like a slug all day, I want to be out playing sports and walking around! Anyway, just keep in mind I have been doing this for months and Dr. Fung has an entire book ("The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting" - https://amzn.to/2LV5yci) and 100s of patients, and people have been fasting for ALL of human history :) 

@Diablo360x - To discount a doctor who has 100s of patients that he has helped save their lives by getting them off their diabetes medication is unfortunate. Read the reviews for his book of people he has helped: https://amzn.to/2KmL9Qo This is serious stuff that affects peoples lives! To constantly denigrate the man with no facts (just opinions) is heartbreaking. Why be so negative? Why not allow MY facts (my numbers and my pictures are on this site for all to see) to simply stand without unfounded and unsubstantiated criticism.  

Everyone who loses weight which makes you healthier gets off of meds. That isn't anything new and it was not because of omitting sugar. But it does help with the confirmation bias. Doctors can't hold a candle to expert nutritionists on nutrition. Try Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Brad Schoenfeld, James Krieger etc. None of them agree with that charlatan. 

I dont see anything about your training here, but it sounds as if you might be overly catabolic and its throwing you into a metobalic slowdown that's looping around and around. Gotta keep that muscle to keep your rate up! 

Exactly Chris, that's the most important part by far. People like to complicate things though, and there will always be charlatans there to make a buck from them.