reddir's Journal, 22 September 2017

Ok, the food fantasies and salivation are getting pretty heavy now.

I'm just over 1 hour from my expected feeding window but my BG is still higher than I'd like. Intellectually, I'd like to wait until tomorrow and try for a lower BG before eating, something closer to healthy. However, I normally only fast for 20 hours between meals and this was supposed to be a shift to 44 hours between meals...and my mind and now even my body are kind of straining at the leash right now.

So...I am planning a good keto meal to start, fish with good fat and maybe only salt and turmeric.

I'm telling my mind I have the option for something a bit less healthy toward the end of my eating window, but am hoping if I retain any hunger I will be able to achieve satisfaction with just more fish/fat.

8 Supporters    Support   

1 to 20 of 26
Is there a way you can get a second opinion on BG and other aspects of this? I have zero opinion here, just notice it sounds like more deprivation than some people would find sustainable. 
22 Sep 17 by member: T8U9
I guess I don't understand this Keto thing. Where do you get your vitamins and minerals for building healthy new cells when you cut out major food groups ? 
22 Sep 17 by member: liittle lamb
Better keep the orange juice close at hand.  
22 Sep 17 by member: Sarah1950
What is BG? 
22 Sep 17 by member: Lady Winslow
If you don't eat something, your Blood Glucose will only get worse. You'll have a serious crash that could potentially hospitalize you. I have a friend who was in the exact same situation, and he was hosptialized. Eat something that will stablize your glucose levels and satisfy your hunger, like nuts or meat. If your BG dips too low, eat some whole carbs to stabilize it for a long duration of time. 
22 Sep 17 by member: Thomas Puhl
Sounds like Thomas Puhl has good advice. I used to take care of a diabetic. On the days I was not with her she would report to me that she did real good and only ate a peach. Ultimately that led to her going into ketosis, having a stroke, and a serious dent in the hospital. I do not practice medicine however I have units in cardiology. I also have a daughter who is a registered dietitian. She works with diabetics on a regular basis at her hospital. Get some medical advice and be careful! 
22 Sep 17 by member: Tyaki
Not dent, a serious long stay in the hospital with multiple CVA's. A CVA is a type of stroke. 
22 Sep 17 by member: Tyaki
Thanks for the support and advice! A couple of responses to follow (I tried to put them all in 1 post but the system took out all the line breaks and it was a mess to read.) 
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
1) BG = Blood Glucose. It supposed to stay under 100, and a sustained reading over 140 or so is considered "Diabetic".  
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
2) To those concerned about my BG dropping too low - no worries. I am not currently using medication so there is almost zero chance of this happening. Frankly, a reading under 110 would seem like a miracle at this point. 
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
3) About starts to feel like that to my mind, but my body generally feels good and actually _better_ the longer I don't eat. I've assumed that this is because I am giving it a chance to let the BG fall from super dangerous to mildly dangerous. My _mind_ certainly feels the deprivation. I've started to notice just how much emotional attachment I have to being able to prep and eat certain foods. I spent time in a 3rd world country and boarding school as a child - I'm starting to realize I've been trying to avoid remembering the deprivation (or at least, sense of deprivation) and lack of control I saw and experienced when young. 
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
4) About vitamins/minerals on keto...well, speaking strictly as a diabetic, it is better for me to minimize carbs (down to zero if possible) and take supplements than trying to get everything from diet. I love vegetable juices and salads and fruits, and especially cooked vegetables, but a diabetic body's main issue is a general inability to deal with carbs. Also, occasional organ meats and such do offer a reasonable whole food vitamin/mineral mix without overloading carbs. 
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
Thank you all for your concern! It means a lot to me that you all care for my health :) It is sometimes hard for me to maintain the needed focus to get to (and especially _stay_ at) healthy BG levels, sometimes I start to wonder why I bother. Seeing that others care feels like a kind of booster shot for my intent to get healthy :) 
22 Sep 17 by member: reddir
I've been eating a couple thousand or more calories (50% of my RDI) a day with usually VERY low cabs (less than 20, often around 5g and once even 0.13g carbs) for 104 days and I've lost an average of .65lb or 11/16lb every day. I've tried fasting, not always by choice, and for me metabolism shuts down and lose less weight than with 2k+ cals & exercise. I lose a ton of muscle mass calorie reduction, but have been getting stronger with low carb + less than 20+% protein. I once fasted for 21 days on only tap water & a few vitamins and lost less weight than any recent 21 day period. Was too weak to exercise. For me consistent low carbs & exercise has been the first time things are under control after a lifetime of yo-yo dieting.  
22 Sep 17 by member: PbSULAK
Tyaki, I think you mean ketoacidosis and not ketosis...? 
22 Sep 17 by member: Jacivez2004
Yes, either or both are now accepted terminology among the medical and nutrition community, same as Ketototic. I heard various references to Ketoacidosis over the 33 + years working in health care, yet my Android auto-correct doesn't recognize the traditional spelling.  
23 Sep 17 by member: kiltedson
kiltedson, Kitoacidosis is a said to be a very dangerous situation and requires immediate medical attention. It can be thought of as an extreme (at least 10x normal) of ketosis. Ketosis itself is a normal metabolic situation that some research is suggesting is beneficial for health. I can't do the science justice. It might be worth doing a search and seeing what others have said. 
23 Sep 17 by member: reddir
Fun with numbers. reddir quote "It can be thought of as an extreme (at least 10x normal) of ketosis." Interesting. A cursory review of BHB (not a true chemical ketone but the most accurate to measure relative to other options of ketone bodies like urine strips or breathalyzers). Volek and Phinney p. 91 Art and Science of Low Carb Living: 0.5 - 3 mM nutritional ketosis, optimal is 1-3 mM, post exercise 2.25 - 3+(3.5?), >3 starvation ketosis and 10+ ketoacidosis. 2nd source was a blog post with body condition and quality of ketone being produced: after a meal shows 0.1 mmol/L overnight fast 0.3 mmol/L keto diet (nutritional ketosis) 1 -8 mmol/L a fast > then 20 days 10 mmol/L and uncontrolled diabetes (Ketoacidosis) is > then 20 mmol/L. So with Volek and Phinney I could be in nutritional ketosis at 3 and 10 times that number would put me in ketoacidosis. So 10X's rule of thumb doesn't work well with them. The blogger shows nutritional ketosis between 1-8 mmol/L so at 3 mmol/l times 10 I'd be in a state of ketoacidosis. You can see how general rules like 10x's a certain reading are really not a good rule to follow. Luckily most people aren't too accurate with their ketone readings because they measure using the rule "For those of you not needed for energy get the heck out!" rule aka urine and breath. I digress so: blood ketone readings are accurate and according to the 2 sources above and your general rule of 10x can lead to serious problems for dieters. Continue learning and best of luck.  
23 Sep 17 by member: Terrapin12
I hope you are following the advice of a doctor. Going 20 hours without a meal or the extreme 44 you mentioned is something I wouldn't do (and I DON'T have diabetes) unless my doctor okayed it. I do wish you well and if all of this is for weight loss there are easier ways to do it. My mother had hypoglycemia and I have 2 cousins with diabetes. It seems like the proper diet is very important. 
23 Sep 17 by member: Fritzy 22
Terrapin12, the number I gave was meant to indicate a general concept and not be taken clinically. I'm glad you were able to look into the issue more closely to find somewhat authoritative information. 
23 Sep 17 by member: reddir


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