Well, I think the CICO theory can't be the entire thing. So much is hormone driven. Keep up the weight loss and your numbers will improve over time.
31 May 18 by member: Steven Anthony
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@Steven Anthony - I agree!
31 May 18 by member: adefwebserver
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Dr Berg has articles and short videos on u-tube to show how carbs turn to sugar causing spikes and hinder weight loss. He also talks of not eating so often; leaving as much time as you can between meals. And what ever you plan to eat, eat it all at that time. Every time you eat, insulin is activated. The more you snack during the day, the more insulin is spiking causing weight loss to stall. I also do apple cider vinegar as described in one of his other videos. And what is CICO?
31 May 18 by member: Fartblossem
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@Fartblossem - CICO Calories In Calories Out. Basically simple calorie counting. So far only all day fasting 5 days a week is working for me. I get a little food in me and I just keep eating out of control :(
31 May 18 by member: adefwebserver
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Really calorie counting and CICO are different but a lot of people use CICO when they really mean calorie counting. CICO, as Adefwebserver stated, stands for Calories In Calories out which is the belief that as long as your calories in is less than your calories out you will lose weight and if your calories in are greater than your calories out you will gain weight. They say this is the first law of thermodynamics and is absolute but the law is talking about energy in a closed system. Humans are not a closed system. That doesn't mean I think the amount we eat doesn't matter relative to what we eat. But living systems are not in equilibrium. They are highly complex dissipative systems.
31 May 18 by member: cjodyssey
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Well, if you side with actual science and metabolic ward studies CICO is far from a belief. I suggest searching "Insulin...an underserved bad reputation" for some more info based on science. It's a very interesting read.
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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Let's think about it for a second. Fat=life. With no fat on your body, you would die. Claiming that carbs are responsible for fat gain, despite a calorie deficit is claiming that carbs are the superior macro. There are world populations that are dying because they are starving to death. So if we just give them insulin spiking foods, they would live forever? Nope. Also, if calories are not the foundation of fat loss/gain, what is? If carbs cause fat gain why have I and many, many others maintained a low body fat percentage despite a 50+% carb intake?
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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@Diablo360x - I'm just reporting on my own experience. I eat more carbs I gain more water weight ("...Each gram of glycogen is associated with 3-4 grams of water" https://bit.ly/2nkvUez). I believe this has a 8-10 pound limit. However, when I continue to eat carbs my insatiable hunger (sugar for people like me acts like a drug) causes me to eat more. I no longer am able to maintain a "calorie deficit" and the law of thermodynamics is proven yet again :)
01 Jun 18 by member: adefwebserver
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Well yeah, there you go. I'm just talking purely CICO. If something makes you get out of control to the point that you're going into a surplus, you may need to avoid it. You may have to get more restrictive if you cannot moderate certain foods. :(
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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@cjodyssey, as far as humans not being a closed system, yes that is correct but you can figure out your average calorie burn through trial and error. You count calories and stick to a certain intake for 3 weeks and then measure progress by getting on a scale. If the scale shows that you lost weight, you stick to that count until you no longer see progress. If there is no progress you simply reduce your calorie intake. As you lose weight, your energy needs will lessen. As you lose weight you will experience some metabolic adaptations which will reduce your energy needs further but not so much that you need to reduce your calories radically. Unless you have one day where you walk 10 miles and another where you sit all day, your daily expenditure will not change much.
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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So, I am currently listening to an audio book called Keto-Adapted by Maria Emmerich. It explains the pro’s of a ketogenic diet but in a way to understand they ‘Why’s’ of what your body does in different situations. It has been very very interesting.. albeit sometimes repetitive and dry. I highly suggest it (whether you are doing Keto or not). I look at food in a whole new way (at the ripe old age of 46) 🙂
01 Jun 18 by member: NeckerBelle
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Calorie Crusaders do everything in their power to drown out and silence anything they perceive as contradictory to their beliefs. How dare anyone talk about anything other than a calorie deficit!? That's all you need, maaaan, nothing else matters. Yeah, I made the analogy that all you need is rocket fuel to get to the moon, rocket be-damned. Believing that CICO is all that matters is such simplistic thinking that it really should be embarrassing for anyone to say it out loud, but the fact that they do speaks volumes. I really, really, really understand where Jason Fung is coming from when he says CICO is a useful tool for filtering out people that really don't understand weight loss because it illustrates how little the people that preach it actually know. Everyone knows Einstein's famous formula, E=mc², and that's typically the extent of most people's knowledge of physics, CICO isn't much different when it comes to weight loss.
01 Jun 18 by member: @philrmcknight
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What happened to you on MFP, Phil? A well-deserved ban from your posts based on hypotheses instead of solid evidence?
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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Keep helping these charlatans make their money by making simple fat loss/gain some complicated puzzle, Phil. Bravo.
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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@NeckerBelle I wonder if the audio book discusses nutritional ketosis and describes things from a standpoint of ketosis. It seems people simplify concepts about the diet without really understanding how restrictive you need to maintain carbohydrate amounts on a daily basis. Without extremely low calorie count for carbs and you aren't in ketosis then the idea of protein turning to glucose is far from accurate. Oh well, I'll need to check out the book; thx for the reference. :)
01 Jun 18 by member: cantaloupe7
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The whole reason keto can work for someone is because of that restriction. When you eliminate the cheapest and most readily available food groups you tend to reduce overall calories in your diet
01 Jun 18 by member: -Diablo
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I didn't get banned from MFP, I closed my account because there's nothing but crybaby calorie crusaders there. I did see at least three threads I was participating in get deleted because of the unwarranted personal attacks the CICO psychos were making. I wasn't even promoting keto, I was merely talking about keto with people that are doing keto and kept getting, "Woo"'s and personal attacks, and if that's what you meant by, "getting ripped to shreds", that's even more pathetic than constantly pushing CICO.
The last straw for me was yesterday. Some lady asked whether or not she should do keto. I didn't suggest she do keto, I just posted my own weight loss numbers; "Lost over 250 pounds in less than a year doing low-carb/keto." That thread ended up split and put in the debate section after I reported all the personal attacks the CICO Mafia were making. The day before I had some shrew woman criticize my diet and my appearance. I'd like to give her a free Judo lesson, but I digress. If those are your people, you really don't belong on a site like Fat Secret. People here may argue, but they're not just flat-out trolls. You don't persuade anyone using those kinds of tactics.
01 Jun 18 by member: @philrmcknight
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U gain weight cause ur body gets used to no carbs. That’s why when people get off keto the is an adjustment period. I’m sorry u get out off control when u eat carbs.
01 Jun 18 by member: rosio19
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For me, when I eat carbs I am never satisfied for very long. I want to eat every 2 hours and my self-control lessens. Pretty much, I'm miserable unless I keep eating.
01 Jun 18 by member: Steven Anthony
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Steven I must agree, last time I ate a muffin n boy was my tummy making a statement... when I eat eggs it never grumbles I eat before it even has a chance to make sounds
01 Jun 18 by member: rosio19
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