D1srupta's Journal, 21 June 2016

I'm considering visiting a dietician so that I can get some advice on how to continue my weight loss while still putting on muscle. I am concerned I am not eating enough protein, but I worry I will eat too much protein and screw up my Ketosis. It was fairly simple when I wasn't worried about gaining or losing muscle, but now that I'm trying to change my physique it is concerning. This is in part because I do not fully understand how the process works.

If I am in a caloric deficit, will the body prefer to use the protein I consume for muscle repair or for calories? I know that once I am in Ketosis, the body will primarily rely on Ketones for energy. However, I know that I have been knocked out of Ketosis when the fat to protein ratio was too skewed. I also wonder if eating an excess of calories, even if it meets the macro ratios for Ketosis, would prevent the Ketosis from occurring properly.

I feel much better during Ketosis than I do when I am on my normal every da diet. Any Ketosis dieters that are also body builders able to answer these questions so that I can continue to feel better while also increasing my muscle mass?

How are proteins used by the body when in a calorie deficit?

How do I know how much protein I can eat without breaking Ketosis?

Diet Calendar Entries for 21 June 2016:
2492 kcal Fat: 213.49g | Prot: 134.31g | Carb: 23.14g.   Breakfast: Jimmy Dean Premium Pork Sage Sausage. Lunch: Holmes Smokehouse Original Pecan Smoked Sausage. Dinner: Fresh Express Hearts of Romaine, Wright Brand Naturally Applewood Smoked Sliced Bacon, Great Value Ground Beef 73/27, Kraft Natural Finely Shredded Cheddar Jack Mexican Style Shredded Cheese. Snacks/Other: Roasted Salted Peanuts. more...
3890 kcal Activities & Exercise: Standing - 6 hours, Weight Training (moderate) - 1 hour, Resting - 9 hours, Sleeping - 8 hours. more...

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I lost over 100 lbs. on a very low calorie, no-carbohydrate, high protein diet. I was followed by both my doctor and a dietician. The diet was "Protein Sparing Modified Diet". The diet was designed to lose the body fat, but not muscle mass as you would tend to do on a conventional diet. Carb's were limited to 10 g/day. No sugar, no fruit and very limited vegetables (because they have carbs also). 96 oz of water/day, and only lean protein (fish, chicken, pork loin, beef). Had to measure ketones everyday with strips, and as long as they measured low-to moderate I was fine. Supplements also had to be taken: Magnesium, Calcium, and prescription potassium, because the diet could screw up your panels. I had blood work done once per month to make sure everything was still in the normal range. The daily caloric intake amounted to 700-800 calories. As long as I was in Ketosis, it indicated I was burning fat stores. Carbs are used first by the body for energy, but since this diet is extremely low in carbs, the body starts to burn the fat stores for energy. The fat breakdown produces the ketones. If you don't have a lot of fat to burn, I am not sure how that would work. Again the purpose of this diet was to lose weight/fat. It worked. I went from having A1C's above 12 to 4 and got off several diabetes meds. 
21 Jun 16 by member: ddogger
Brad Pilon's Eat Fast Eat goes over how to maintain lean muscle mass while losing weight. It's an intermittent fasting diet. His recommendation is 100 grams of protein a day and splitting your fast across 2 days so that the portion of each day added together still reaches 100 grams of protein. His scientific data about the lean muscle mass preservation is very clear. The diet does not require ketosis to be working, though when fasting you're in an insulin lowered state and burning from your fat stores. I would recommend his materials.  
21 Jun 16 by member: mountain_mama
Protein, certainly in muscle building quantities, breaks ketosis for me. Ketosis doesn't matter for fat loss. Check out ketogains on reddit. This is a community of ketogenic lifters and BBers. 
22 Jun 16 by member: jimmiepop
Don't bother with the dietician or the keto diet itself. Specially if you now want to put on muscle. You tried keto already, how about you join our 10in30 challenge on here? For one month you'll be on a slight deficit but you'll eat carbs! Delicious, enriching, energy-giving carbs!! I almost guarantee you that you will see a big difference as far as not only losing fat, but putting on muscle and being able to finally lift more in the gym. 
23 Jun 16 by member: doland
Ohhh you NEED to tell us how that turns out. And make sure you have a video camera ready for when his head explodes when you tell him your a keto dieter. lol Dieticians, UNLESS VERY well educated HATE us Keto/low carb people. Everything we do is a boot to the collective head of the establishment. 
23 Jun 16 by member: knuckles the mgtow monk
Yup - my parents are both diabetic and my step-dad had quadruple bypass surgery and the dietician told me people died from not eating enough carbs they need to have a lot of carbs *smacking my head* I would have asked for the details on the study where people died from not having carbs if it wouldn't have set off a firestorm with my rather unstable parents <3 geesh... 
23 Jun 16 by member: mountain_mama
Stick with a 70/20/10 fat to protein to carb ratio and you'll be fine.  
23 Jun 16 by member: 1point21gigawatts
You have to be in a caloric surplus to build muscle. You'd need to either A: be on steroids, or B: have god tier genetics to burn fat and build muscle simultaneously. Early on in fitness you can get "newbie gains" as they're commonly called. Where you will for a brief time gain strength and burn fat, but once the body adjusts those go away. 
23 Jun 16 by member: Brocel
Ohm those Dieticians are SO FULL OF CRAP!!! I guess I am the walking dead then. You guys all know my carb story. I have not had more than 20 GRAMS of carbs a day for damn near 4 months now. Aside from a couple special exceptions days of course. CARBS kill people NOT the lack of carbs. Tell whatever IDIOT, I mean dietician you find to come talk to all of us walking dead AFTER his head explodes. And like I said. Remember the camera, we wanna see film at 5 on news channel 5. 
23 Jun 16 by member: knuckles the mgtow monk
A few things: At 238lbs, what do you think your Body Fat % is, let's guess around 35%, that leaves 154lbs Lean Body Mass (LBM). At your goal weight of 200lbs, depending on height, let's say you drop down to 23%, that leaves you at....154lbs LBM. Chances are you already have enough muscle...you have excess fat is the problem. So don't be concerned with gaining muscle, just eat to lose weight and maintain the muscle mass you have. Secondly, Dietitians/Nutritionists are agents of the Federal Government and are mandated to use the Food Pyramid. Catch one off of work, a different story, but as a client, you'll get the Food Pyramid as a base. Your diet plan as described is a simple LCHF...works well to lose weight and works well as an everyday diet (see my profile pic). No need for "Prescription Potassium", Magnesium+Potassium Supplements work just great. Ketone Stix do not measure your level of Ketosis...you're either in or out...there is no high...or low, and they don't even measure Ketones. Long story short...you're concerned over nothing. Your Low Carb High Fat, Moderate Protein diet is fine as is. 
23 Jun 16 by member: mahjohn
This post was a little more controversial than I expected. I should add that I am currently undergoing physical therapy to strengthen my back to help fix the curvature of my thoracic spine and to help straighten the lumbar spine back out. Causes me a lot of pain on a daily basis, and it ironically got worse as I lost more weight. One day I had to pick up a 45lb package and I struggled to do so. That was a shocker when I could pick up 150lbs of freight without a team lift. I'm incredibly weak compared to what I was before. I just want to not be in pain. 
23 Jun 16 by member: D1srupta

     
 

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