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So, the past week or so I've been watching some videos of doctors promoting a low-carb diet instead of just watching movies :') (I tend to get obsessed with subjects I'm interested in, woops) Anyhow, tonight I'm watching one promoting a vegan diet instead. What I'm thinking now: Everyone just takes studies that are relevant to their diet in a positive way & ignores the rest of the facts. If I want to learn as much as possible, I should also listen to and learn from people who say the complete opposite (if they have studies backing them up). Right? "There are three sides to every story. Yours, theirs, and the truth" So... What should I believe? What the guy says basically: (cause it's a long video) - Vegans/Vegetarians have a lower BMI, lower cholesterol but a better LDL/HDL ratio, live longer - But you have to take vitamin B12, calcium, vitamin D, omega 3, zinc; add extra vitamin C to your diet to absorb the iron from plant sources - Some studies show a link between soy consumption and breast cancer, some don't - Some studies show a link between soy and reduced cognition, some show a link between soy and increased cognition, clinical trials find soy to be helpful for cognition - Soy is safe for the thyroid - Most men don't suffer with feminizing characteristics because of soy (w the estrogen I guess) - No problems with soy & sperm quality - Meat eaters get 34% of their calories from fat, vegans get 30% from fat (on average) -- meat eaters get 12% of their calories from saturated fat, vegans 5% -- vegans have a lower cholesterol than meat eaters -- vegans eat less calories - Vegans on a low fat diet may start craving fat so he doesn't recommend a very low fat diet Presentation 2 (vegan activist - tbh I don't think much of this is based on any science at all) - We're no omnivores but herbivores, we're not fast enough to catch prey, we don't eat meat raw, our saliva is made to digest carbohydrate enzymes, we don't have claws, our intestines are too long... - If we were genuine meat eaters, we wouldn't ever clog our arteries from all the meat - All the nutrients we need are found in nature, not animal sources. Foods like fruits, vegetables, legumes, grains, cannot harm you. We don't get sick from broccoli etc. - Most of the cancers, kidney disease, obesity, diabetes, heart diseases, strokes, asthma are caused by cholesterol, saturated fat, trans fats*, animal protein. (and smoking, etc. ) - You can eliminate cholesterol completely from your body, if you get it from an outside source, it's bad cholesterol. - Every study shows that people who eat the most animal protein have the highest rates of osteoporosis, which causes bone fractures and cancers - There are more studies showing a vegan diet is healthier, but you should throw all those studies out and pay attention to the meat, cheese, eggs & milk society. He knows a lot of people with cancer, heart disease, etc. Those people all eat meat, cheese, eggs & dairy. - Everyone's hooked on cheese, like it's weed, crack, xtc, ... - Meat consumption prevents calcium absorption because animal protein makes your blood too acidic - "If people ate a fricken' apple or a pear once in a while, no one would need help taking a ****" - There's hormones and pus in your milk I tried a vegan diet a couple of years ago (for 3 months). I replaced dairy with soy milk and rice milk and meat products with fake meats (double portions with each meal) and hummus. I also had B12 supplements. I lost about 8 kg (17lbs), got depressed for the first time in my life, got bronchitis 2 (or 3) times, felt lightheaded etc. so even if it makes you live longer, I wouldn't eat this way again. (Vegetarian meals are delicious though) Anyhow, I'd be surprised if anyone read the whole thing, but what's your opinion? *I have to look up the part where he said that, maybe I got it wrong, or maybe I remembered it wrong, but aren't most of the trans fats from hydrogenated vegetable oils?
Diet Calendar Entries for 05 February 2014:
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1065 kcal
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Fat: 85.44g | Prot: 33.64g | Carb: 53.24g.
Breakfast: Apples, Peanut Butter. Dinner: Room, Boter, Olijfolie, South Makreelfilets in Olijfolie, Knoflook, Uien, Broccoli, Wortelen. Snacks/Other: Peanut Butter, Cappuccino. more...
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1725 kcal
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Activities & Exercise:
Standing - 4 hours, Housework - 20 minutes, Shopping - 20 minutes, Walking (moderate) - 3/mph - 10 minutes, Resting - 12 hours and 10 minutes, Sleeping - 7 hours. more...
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1 to 20 of 23
 Comments
There is apparently a reason why you felt horrible eating like a vegan. I think fruits and veggies are very important but all things should be in moderation like milk and meat. People in the bible had milk, fruits, veggies and meat. Just not all the pesticides. Lol
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Well, I have not researched on the subject like you have but it's actually interesting. Thank you for sharing your findings! In my personal opinion though, I think all diets have a positive and negative side (even with multiple studies to back them all up) just as there is no diet plan that works on everybody. What I did with my diet plan is to search what I can be comfortable with and see if it works out for me. If it doesn't, then I will explore another one. Being happy and feeling good about the choices I make is very important for me because it motivates me to stick with what I have chosen. And for me, staying positive and happy about what goes on in your life is the best way to longevity.
04 Feb 14 by member: ZivaDavid11
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These two videos, from your description have a more conventional approach to health, and are more according to those guidelines set many years ago which, according to that Swedish Dr, makes us fatter. But, at the same time, that Swedish Dr. also said there is a people, native to I don't remember where, who eat a diet based mostly on carbs and they're not fat. Maybe that's because these are healthy (natural) carbs only. I think that makes all the difference (not consuming processed carbs and other processed foods). If we look at it, another thing which started more less at the same time as this obesity epidemic was processed foods. Maybe that's the real culprit after all because, we have been eating both carbs and animal food sources long before that obesity epidemic and not getting fat :) Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. Maybe, at the same time, carbs and eating processed carbs etc causes more fat, while eating too much saturated fats or trans fats will also more heart problems even if you don't get fat heheh. That makes two of us (getting obsessed about things we're interested in at the moment lol). That definitely makes a lot of sense! A lot of times, we tend to only accept the information that we want to believe :). I think that being a vegan it's just too hard to get some of those nutrients, without the help of stuff such as eggs fish and milk for instance. In vegan diets, isn't magnesium an issue either? :) I didn't know that about the iron. It's probably to do with the heme iron VS non-heme iron. The second video, from your description, sounds less scientific (the arguments in it I mean heheh). The problem with many of these arguments is, like it is said in that "science for smart people" they seem mostly observational heheh. They show a correlation between two facts but can't prove that one causes the other :) What we see is, some of those studies will say "meat eaters will die earlier", others say "heavy carb eaters will get fatter and die earlier", but were these isolated diets consisting of only meat VS heavy carb eating? Or were there other factors such as processed foods? And, regarding cancer, isn't it also possible that there are other factors outside of our diets which are contributing to it? The advent of oil and air pollution related to it; the evolution of chemistry and all the chemicals in our household products for example and also all the chemicals in products (furniture, car interiors, clothing, shower curtains, food packaging, etc); the exposure to radiation especially from medical sources like X-rays and, especially CAT and PET scans, but also all the radiation from communications, etc... Many of these things are recent and I'm wondering what part they play in cancers... :P. The greatest contribution to my bowel functioning so far, appears to have been banning sweets :). They started working like a clock from that point on (never even near in many years). Regarding trans fats, I don't know about those vegetable oils but processed foods definitely appear a "rich" source of trans fats. :)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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iamachristianjesusfreak has a point. We have been eating those foods for a long time, just not so processed ;)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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One thing is for sure. If we could eliminate highly processed foods from our diets, that would probably make a drastic improvement :) After that, it would be easier to analyse the real effects that animal sources and natural carbs have on our diets. There are examples of healthy people on this planet (tribes etc) eating either mostly natural animal sources or, like you said, the Japanese, who eat lots of natural carbs (rice). They both appear to be ok ;)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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By the way, the Japanese eat lots of animal sources too (fish) :)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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I think that, if we research those civilizations where people last very long and are healthy and without obesity problems, we will likely find out that, our health issues are neither related to "just" animal food sources nor carbs (when natural)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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Another modern factor that affects health: "stress" ;)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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But the Japanese are probably very stressed in some cases lol
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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Hahaha most Japanese people sure have a much more stressful life than we do! What also bothers me is that they compare veganism/vegetarianism with "meat eaters", and there are different kinds of meat eaters; from the I-don't-give-a-****s that eat hamburgers, pizzas, drink beer with every meal and smoke, to health-conscious people like people on an Paleo/Primal diet. I think vegetarians and vegans are more likely to be health-conscious, eat less fast food, etc. Vegetarians having a lower BMI also doesn't mean that much, it could as well mean the meat eaters had more muscle mass, a BMI can't give you details like that. I don't believe a vegetarian diet is healthier than a diet with meat (given that you're not eating processed foods), if you have to take supplements and buy foods fortified with vitamins. I also read that even non-vegetarians eat way too much soy (it's in almost all processed foods), and I'm sure I read about health risks concerning a high soy intake, but I don't remember where I exactly got it from. The guy in the second video also blames meat for heart disease while this doesn't seem to be the case (there isn't even a significant correlation between saturated fats and heart disease or cholesterol and heart disease - again, this is how I remember it, I'd have to look it up again to be sure). I searched for "meat and blood acidity" on Google and the only results were from people wondering 'where the bald guy from the video got this information from'. :p He's right about the hormones and pus though, but I guess that's the fault of the dairy industry, not the cow milk itself.
05 Feb 14 by member: doublecheese
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+ Most fake meats, most dairy alternatives, etc. are heavily processed foods full of sugar and trans fats. You could also get orange juice fortified with those vitamins (according to the video) but then again, doesn't fruit juice have as much sugar as a coke?
05 Feb 14 by member: doublecheese
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Another argument I read on the Fat Head blog is that vegetarians also quit when this diet is making them sick or feel exhausted. So the people who stay on a vegetarian diet are healthy individuals who thrive on this diet, which makes the stats look like all people would benefit from being veggie
05 Feb 14 by member: doublecheese
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I believe if you are going to drink juice it should be by using a juicer. Also animals that are not given shots and are pasture fed only probably don't have all the issues like what we get from the store. Also there are things like goat milk even. I wonder if stuff like that was included in these studies.
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That supplement argument makes a lot of sense Doublecheese! No healthy diet should require supplements. Whenever a diet is suggested that goes to any extreme, alarm bells sound in my mind heheh. I have also heard something about soy (I think it was soy sprouts) and there's probably also some GMO stuff going on with it. that pus and hormone business is not a nice thing to learn lol... I didn't know that about fake meats but that follows the trend that, replacements for bad stuff are, often times, even worse... (gluten-free foods, aspartame, etc). Yeah fruit juice has lots of fructose and no fibers which is definitely bad for you :P. I don't know the amount of sugar relative to a coke but I guess it depends on the fruit used :). That fact about the quitters makes sense. The fact that they don't quit probably also means they also have more discipline when it comes to other health-conscious habits. It's very complicated lol.
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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That about using a juicer appears to make sense iamachristianjesusfreak! I just don't understand why that isn't mentioned. Also, one thing that happens even when you use a juicer is that, instead of just consuming one piece of fruit, you will often use several of them to fill one glass (lots more sugar all at once). :) I completely agree about the pasture fed milk and goat milk!
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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Look at this excerpt from a website: "... A glass of juice concentrates all the sugar from several pieces of fruit. Ounce per ounce, it contains more calories than soda, though it tends to be consumed in smaller servings. A cup of orange juice has 112 calories, apple juice has 114, and grape juice packs 152, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The same amount of Coke has 97 calories, and Pepsi has 100..."
http://blog.fooducate.com/2009/11/13/orange-juice-is-just-as-bad-as-cola-really/
But, still, using a juicer will most likely equate to eating the fruits intact in all other aspects except that one of sheer quantity :)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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oops, working link here: http://tinyurl.com/o9wkh33
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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That's a lot of calories, and they're gone in 15 seconds maybe :p If I were to eat something with lots of sugar then I'd rather have a cookie instead of orange juice
05 Feb 14 by member: doublecheese
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The problem with the cookie is that, unlike fruit juice made in a juicer, it doesn't have all the fiber and vitamins that make all that sugar count for something and which also neutralize some of the sugar :)
05 Feb 14 by member: euheide
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What I like about drinking sweetened coffee versus eating sweets is I consume less calories in the end. I can drink just one cup of coffee. Not as good at eating one or two cookies though. Lol! If i had a juicer i would drink my fruit versus eating because i would add shaved ice and it would seem like a treat not just fruit. ;)
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