delede's Journal, 17 June 2016

my trainer was a vegetarian until about a year ago. He had been doing body building for 3 years, and wasn't seeing as many gains as his girlfriend. He switched to meat, and has seen fabulous gains in muscle mass.  

I see. I wonder if others have had that same experience? BTW, I am aiming to lose fat, not gain muscle. 

Now why you gonna go and get me started?! 

Every single organic entity on earth, from microbes, single cell zygotes, to giant red wood trees and sperm whales make their own amino acids and proteins.  

Humans make all of our over 120,000 different and specific proteins. All we need from food is fuel - by way of natural fats and sugars (carbs) - just not to much of either. Food science has corrupted so much of the reading and writings of how and where proteins and amino acids come from that it is hard for us who know the real deal of how bio chemistry works - to convince everyone else. And it is especially difficult in online forums with short posts. 

We can't use proteins from dead plants and dead animals. Decay dynamics do away with those particular molecules - and right quick. When your food smells putrid, that's decay dynamics at work, that's protein molecules breaking down, decomposing, bio degrading. We can kill an animal and put it on ice right quick, but all that does is temporarily suspend decay dynamics. Farmer suspend decay dynamics in their crops by flash heating them soon after being pulled from the soil. This flash heating kills the enzymes that are in plants that aid in the breakdown of other macro nutrients (proteins). The problem is, that flash heat destroys all the other molecules - heat doesn't discriminate.  

Ok. So, if I understand this correctly, are you saying that if I use more protein all the body will do is convert it into fuel anyway? So what about these "eight essential amino acids" that I keep seeing on each of those protein powders that I look at? (BTW, some of them taste quite nasty! I am presently using a Vanilla one that is not too bad, but I add vegetables to it.) 

There is no protein going into your body with most foods. If the plant and animal is not freshly killed and eaten - as in eating grass, or biting the ass of a zebra, then there are no longer any real protein molecules remaining. But it doesn't matter - you want sugar and fat molecules. Sugar molecules simply break down into smaller sugar molecules. Protein doesn't work that way. Once a protein molecule is destroyed, it is no longer biologically active. But no matter - you make your own. 

The 8 or nine essential amino acids are based on false science study done in the 50's and 60's. It was lazy science study with questionable parameters and sketchy results. But the results, no matter what - never showed how or why those certain amino acids were essential. In fact they are not essential at all. Some in science assumed that because humans can't synthesize those on our own, then we have to get them from outside sources - thus they are an essential part of our diet. They are not. That was a mistaken assumption - that because we can't synthesize them, they are thus essential and we need them. We do not need them. 

Hmm! That is so different from what I was taught in the Human and Social Biology course I did eons ago, but it sounds reasonable. Is there supporting research on this perspective? Also, does the idea of plant-based combinations (e.g. rice and beans) giving the eater a "complete protein" even relevant when planning meals? 

The government put together a long 200 plus page study of the "essential amino acids". 200 pages in - they speak to what I just said - that there is zero truth to essential amino acids having anything to do with good health or bad health. Now, knowing all this - we no longer have to consider foots - animals, beans, plants etc as having complete proteins. We don't have to combine to get all the amino acids. "complete protein" is a food science bit of bunkery - and something meat eaters and the egg and milk industry like to throw at vegetarians. They also tried the B12 thing - that approach failed as well. All organisms have complete proteins - or they could not exist and function. 

I see! So, just for argument sake, are there no health risks if I eat a diet that contains almost zero protein (kinda impossible, I know, because I eat beans, nuts etc). 

If you suddenly became a feral beast (no not just a bad hair day:), someone who now had to survive in the wild - nothing you ate would not have proteins- perhaps the license plate and the bottom of the river...). But you won't ever need those proteins - from outside sources. We are not eating for proteins - we are eating for fuel by way of sugars and fatty acids. From there, with that fuel, we make all the different and specific proteins we need, according to our specific DNA dictates. 

LOL! I like how you put things across- simply and with a touch of humour. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I will try to dig up on the research, just in case my colleague mentions it again. 

yes, take what every one says and seek out your version of the truth. I would suggest asking bio chemists. They are out there aplenty. Every college and university has a website where you can speak with bio chemists - both the students and the faculty. If a person doesn't have a deep background in bio chemistry, along with years of lab work - they might not be the best source for getting at the truth of how the body really works. I would trust a botanist over a nutritionist - one is steeped in good science, the latter, most of them got their degrees online, for 500 bucks in under a year. Just sayin. 

You have to do what's right for your body. I'm not sure I totally agree with the "there are no proforma" train of thought, but I do agree that we have often been mislead by government guidelines paid for by special interests. Vegetarianism becomes dangerous when it makes a person be a carbotarian. (Relying on sugar and processed carbs for the majority of your diet. There is nothing wrong with being vegetarian/vegan. But I am intrigued by the person whose name keeps changing's science around building amino acids into proteins. From what sources are you reading? I'd love to check out our. 

Sorry, that should say "proteins" and not proforma. The mobile app makes post longer than 7 words difficult  

Me, I am not reading from any sources. Someone said to me last week here on FS that I should provide links. I thought - links to what? links to what I know? When we are in the cafeteria and we are just talking science - bio chem talk - after each person speaks we don't cite sources - we are just speaking about what we know. It's like asking someone how they know 2 plus 2 is four. You know it cause you learned it. I do not at all mean to sound rude or mean spirited. I can take you down real science lane, right here on FS if you like and break down so much of how it works in the body. Many hate when I get too sciency, they hate my long posts - but I still post. 

BTW, that punch the kiwi in the face post was funny as hell. 

BDMoggins, I appreciate your concern about the 'carbotarianism' (nice term, LOL). I used to consume mainly processed carbs because they were convenient. However I now make the bulk of my foods from locally-grown, fresh produce. This includes complex carbohydrates such as green bananas, plantains, cassava, corn, etc. (I have been reading that in addition to the fiber, these foods are rather high in resistant starches, making them good for weight loss and gut health. I have been weaning myself off flour and sugar. I also use a great deal of vegetables such as broccoli, bok choi, cauliflower, spinach, pumpkin, cucumber, etc. as well as nuts, flax seed and chia. My biggest source of sugar is from the many delicious local fruits such as mangoes (unbeatably tasty when naturally ripened and freshly-piked from the tree), bananas, pineapples, etc. I still haven't been able go very high fat, but I am gradually working in some healthy oils, such as cold-pressed coconut oil and avocados. I will look further into the science of protein digestion and use. What I have learned so far is that the body still converts the protein to glucose, and in so doing produces waste that is excreted by the kidneys. This suggests to me that we really do not use the protein, per say, but rather the energy it provides. However, i am no expert, so I will keep reading and asking questions.