rwaller7483's Journal, 02 May 2016

There's not a lot I can say but to offer my support. I understand and see in myself a lot of what you've written but we're all different and what helps me not beat myself up when I do something I shouldn't (drink a bottle of wine instead of a glass, that sort of thing) won't necessarily work for you. You at least seem to understand it in yourself which may help in the long run. Take care and treat yourself kindly, this Mayday holiday. 

Thanks. It's just frustrating as much as anything. Like dieting itself, broadly speaking we all know what to do and what not to do but that alone isn't enough. Likewise, I know I'm being harsh on myself and I know, like you, I'd want to offer support for anyone saying anything like what I have just now, too. I just don't feel like I deserve the support and I know how ridiculous that sounds, even more so because I think everyone else deserves it. I know my brain makes no sense sometimes and I desperately wish I knew what it'll take to change that but I don't. 

This is going to sound really stupid to you, especially as you're a bloke but I'll say it anyway. One thing I'd been doing for ages was putting off buying new bras in a larger size to accommodate the increased fat on my torso. I was wearing tatty bras that were extremely uncomfortable, feeling even fatter because of it and eating and drinking myself even more miserable and bigger. One day something snapped (not literally, thank the heavens - that would have registered as an earthquake somewhere!) and I order myself a bra that was flattering, and when it arrived, fitted and supported. I ordered two more of the same. I also ordered some cheap baggy longline T-shirt type tops. Suddenly the bumps were in the right places, the tops covered a multitude of sins at waist level and I felt a lot more confident. I'm lucky in that my legs have always been slim so I started wearing jeans and (low) heels again rather than joggers &a trainers and pulled my shoulders back to show off the bumps in the right places. I got compliments! Which for someone over 50, who felt fat and invisible spurred me on to action. I poured efforts into losing the weight by portion control, not denial. I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here but maybe, just maybe, there's one small thing you need to change in your life to help change your attitude to yourself. I wish you well. Px 

Hah cheers, doesn't sound stupid at all. Could be bras, could be jeans or shirts whatever. Fortunately I'm in the position now that I'm fitting into stuff that I haven't for ages, but like you, when I'd grown out I didn't bother replacing much. I felt like I'd be admitting defeat if I were to buy a new pair of jeans the size I was and several times I've deliberately bought stuff a little bit too small with the intention of shrinking into em. I suppose I do have some fairly flattering clothes too, and I've got a height advantage (6ft3) that means I don't carry so badly.. Even so, I'm still not satisfied and I'm not sure how or when I will be. Portion control has been the way forward for me too, when I think about what I used to be able to put away I'm quite embarrassed. 

Everything you've talked about here is powerful and very honest - I think many people who have lost a lot of weight go through some unexpected mental/emotional battles as they work through this process. It's only natural, perhaps, because it forces us to confront SO many things - in ourselves, in our past, in the world around us. This doesn't get talked about ENOUGH, in my opinion, because how we feel and how we look are, for better or worse, forever linked. How our priorities and inner selves impact our outer self are forever linked. I want to propose to you though, a positive spin on what you are experiencing: The fact that you are confronting this feeling in yourself is positive. The fact that you question it, that you push back against it, and speak out about it, is positive. But, for what it's worth, do try to stop short of "punishing yourself" for your past self; it's okay to reflect, to consider, ponder. To have a conversation with your past in a way that seeks to learn from it - not judge it - because you, today, deserve better. You, today, have CHANGED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE by the choices you've made now, and it's time to let that guy run the show, and not the past. I could have done that too - I'm a little person, and at 99kg at my highest weight, I can't BELIEVE that I didn't see it then, that I didn't face it then, that I didn't prioritise myself more often then. I could beat myself up over the fact that my body would be very different, had I done this sooner. That my entire LIFE would be different, had I done this sooner. The reason I don't - because I realised at some point that it was wasting time, my life, my NEW better life that I just finished carving out for yourself. Don't waste the future that you have created! Get those ghosts off your back - what matters for you - today - is NOW. TODAY. And if you have days where you can't believe it - then go to your loved ones, and ask them to remind you.  

Thank you, that's a lovely message to wake up to. I agree that these issues don't get talked about enough, I guess that from time to time plenty of people will feel like I did when I wrote this and maybe they'll feel isolated because it doesn't get talked about enough, and they won't get the guidance and support that could be helpful. It's true, our inner selves and outer selves are always going to be linked, and although generally I do trust my outer self more than my inner, it's not easy to be so dismissive of my brain. Like that post last week which you commented on too, the one with the picture.. Even now my brain doesn't think I look like that, it's thinking that I look like I do because of some flattering clothes or an angle, maybe it's my posture. It can't possibly be that that's what I look like... And also, like you said, you don't pay compliments that you don't mean - course whenever I've been complimented in any way my immediate reaction has often been that they don't mean it, they're just being nice. But I'm getting better at challenging these silly ideas. You don't pay compliments you don't mean - why would you, why would anyone? If someone pays someone else a compliment that they don't mean, however well intended it might be, I don't think I could count that as someone being nice, not if they're lying. I want to avoid the idea that by doing this I've changed my entire life though, for me it's much more subtle than that and I am hoping for more minor improvements than anything massive. I've got to be realistic, and I mean actually realistic rather than my brain's version of realistic. When I was 25st/158kg I used to think to myself that if I got down to 15st/98kg then everything would be just great. Then I did it, but I never saw a 15st/98kg man looking back at me in the mirror, I didn't feel significantly different. I guess I just bigged it up too much in my mind, and I don't want to fall into that trap again. And I've done that plenty of times with my brain - losing weight, getting a new job, losing my virginity, moving to a new city - these are all things that for one reason or another I'd put off and built up to feel like they were going to be huge life changers but they weren't. I don't think I'm under any illusions this time, well not many... I know when my brain isn't thinking straight, and I know that if I lose another 2st I'm not going to set the world on fire. For the most part I do feel good about what I'm doing and where I'm going, but even that, with the stupid illogical part of my brain seems to be something to occasionally feel guilty about. As if losing weight is an act of conformity towards something I don't believe in, as if wanting to better myself (for want of a better way of putting it) is a refusal to accept myself.  

Those last couple of sentences are especially interesting...the idea that changing is somehow refusing to accept yourself, even if those changes are, in the more logical part of our minds, positive ones. The idea of conforming to something you don't believe in - well, I'd say ask yourself what that something is...what are you conforming to? "Society", perhaps? Sure, it can be tempting, I know, feel like being healthier is ONLY tied to our looks (and therefore it's somehow giving "in" to something external)...I won't deny that's part of it for most people, but how we look is also a silent statement of who we are inside, where we're at in life. So if I understand you (correct me if I'm wrong!), I think I get what you mean. I used to feel, when I was heavier, quite frustrated at the idea that people ONLY saw one thing about me - fat. Nothing else I was, or did, or said, or believed, or had achieved, would resonate with these people as much. (Not all people, of course. But some could be quite unkind - this was back when I still lived in Scotland and the occasional person on the street was incredibly rude!). But I never - and maybe this is crucial, actually considered the fat part of "who I was"...not like my height, or my eye colour, things I was born with, things I cannot change. I wasn't always fat, and some part of me just...needed time, I guess, to be strong enough to let it go, and put myself first again...that can be hard too! If you feel selfish for losing weight, somehow, or that it's bothersome to others (nonsense, and if they behave that way, that's really selfish of THEM)....just remember that being the best, happiest, healthiest YOU has a positive impact on those people around you that you care about! Not talking bollocks here, it matters. The amount of actual, tangible improvements this has made to my health are...more than I can list here without looking like an arse, but it makes every HOUR better - from sleeping to waking, from little things (tying your shoes or rollercoaster rides!) to the big ones (feeling happier about the future, full stop). But...that process is also not an overnight thing. Took me years, so just know...it's okay to feel that conflict with yourself...it really is. Just part of the growing pains. Just don't let it overtake you. You have a new mind that's building itself at the same time as your new body. Try to be kind to yourself, not with food but with thoughts. You do not equal "fat" as an identity, and losing that now doesn't take anything away from you - anything but! So coming back to your comment, ask yourself if the fat is something that you feel is a part of you, somehow, that you are abandoning, and if so - ask yourself why you feel that way. Who do you betray by letting it go now? Who are you saying goodbye to by letting that part of you go away? This is something you have to come to see in yourself. As for changing....well, we change constantly, all through life, because life DOES change us - it's only an illusion that tempts us to think otherwise! And - if I hadn't suggested it before, be sure you're having a friend or family member take photos every few pounds, hold on to a couple of old jeans until the very end of your loss- trust me, you may not see it so easily at first (I didn't either!)....and then when you get to the end, WOW. Believe me, you will, because your eyes get opened in a way that...I don't know, you just need time to get there. Sorry for the length but that last couple of sentences really felt familiar and you have my empathy! 

Society, definitely. I hate the level of pressure people are under to appear this way or that way and I think glossy magazines and the fashion industry have a lot to answer for. While they don't necessarily cause them, they're definitely a major contributor towards eating disorders, body dismorphia and developing a more general insecurity in people. I've always had quite mixed feelings about losing weight. Of course health is a factor and I do feel better in some ways because of that, I'll never be Usain Bolt but I'm surprised with what I manage in the gym sometimes. I do feel that my main motive for wanting to lose weight is vanity though, I do want to be more handsome and it's these ideals that we've had ingrained into us over time that I think do influence, whether we want them to or not. I'm sorry to hear about how rude people have been to you in the past, I guess that's kind of a consequence of people subscribing to the standards put out by the fashion industry. It's also very sexist - as a man, I think I'm far less likely to be a victim of "fat shaming" than women are. For some reason, as far as weight goes, society seems to have different expectations of men and women, there seems to be so much more pressure on women in this respect. And it's wrong. The selfishness/guilt thing about losing weight for me.. like I say, it does kind of feel like I'm subscribing to these ridiculous ideals, but also I've never been good at taking a compliment either. Slightly hypocritical here, but I do find it uncomfortable what a big deal other people will make out of someone else's weight loss. The way people are talking to me now, you'd think I'd won the Nobel Peace Prize or something! Yes, it is an achievement but I don't think it's that big an achievement, it doesn't make me a better person. But I think I'm in a better place than I was when I was so much heavier, definitely. It's weird though - it's a good feeling being able to walk a mile quicker than I used to, but it's a better feeling being able to fit into a pair of jeans I haven't been able to for a couple of years, it feels like my priorities are wrong. That's a good idea about taking photos, too. Well, I'm just turning up in photos without having charting my progress in mind anyway, it just happens. And I have shocked myself a couple of times, it's just not what I see. The photo from the last post - that's not what I see now. The photo from my profile - that's not what I saw then either, and it feels like a lifetime away. And thank you, you make a lot of sense :) 

Hehe, you're welcome. :) Like you, I'm just figuring it all out as I go along, and like you, I've had some "mind battles" along the way. I agree with you about the disparity between how much leeway men are given for their looks, vs women - for so much of human history, a woman's "currency" has literally been her beauty/looks. I'm grateful, at least, that we live in those decades of time where it is discussed, where it is challenged, and where - when those challenges are not happening in certain parts of the world, where women are still denied essential human autonomy and dignity, we get pissed off. In this sense, we are at least crawling forward...On fashion and beauty industries, well, I can appreciate the art, but models are first, and foremost, there to make clothes look good. To achieve that end, a model's duty isn't necessarily one of pursuing health, but filling a role for the designer or brand who (unfortunately or selfishly) seem hellbent on making bodies tailored to clothes and not the other way 'round! You're absolutely right that the fashion industry's insistence on using low body weight models is damaging (and by "low" I mean below the medically accepted healthy range of BMI, which gets far riskier, quicker, than the health of those just above it). If anything I wish we'd just use women in HEALTHY BMI ranges more often, not what we seem to have now which is "super skinny or super overweight as the backlash against it", you know? As if all of us out there wandering around in the UK standard sizes are like...just not here at all...it's just so bloody stupid! :p Anyway...I do think that being positive and appreciative about who we are, those essential "born with it" things that make up each of us, that IS important. But I think only of those things we can't change - that don't hurt our health: our height, our skin tone, our features, our gender, etc. But weight? I honestly feel we don't need to be using extremes of overweight that as a means of self-identification anymore than extremes of UNDERweight. After all, both are to our own detriment. So for that reason, I can't be lured into thinking that somehow choosing to "fight back by being fat" is a valid political stance. I admit, I believe that passionately - that it's about the worst idea ever to think this is an empowering or noble thing to do to ourselves...to be fat as a protest, when doing so has tangible risks that could just as easily be avoided - it keeps us from doing, being, and experiencing everything we can do in this life, it limits us, and it can hurt us, it can end our lives prematurely. I don't know about you, but I sleep better now, I feel better now, I can do more things now, and with way more energy - the list just...goes on forever. We can live as examples - discarding either extreme, not letting ourselves fall prey to the false dichotomy, and just find our healthy, happy, middle point in the Sanity Swimming Pool! Just my 2p, of course, and I'm trying to shut up now (haha). I have genuinely appreciated your comments, I like delving into the psychology of all this and feel it generally isn't given the attention it's due, while meanwhile everyone's in the weekly shouting match over bread. :-P  

Just tried replying to this on work computer but the journal bit's blocked! Apparently it's offensive and tasteless! Weird. It is awful the sexism that still continues in society. A woman's appearance is seen as more important than a man's, and there's no good reason for that. I can understand, vaguely, from the fashion industry, why they want to present a particular ideal. For whatever reason, there are some types of shape, size, tone and colours that, generally, people are more drawn to. Whether they're real or not. Often with modelling, both men and women, people are made up and photoshopped to hell anyway and we've got these images confronting us every day, pressurising us to look like this, and unless we spend our lives in a studio it's never gonna happen. So yeah, I agree that there is a backlash too but often that can be quite cynical. Nobody can complain about fat shaming if they're going to target people for being too skinny. That's the nail on the head too, avoiding the extremes, too far the wrong way, too much of anything is going to be bad for you. I even read about a nutritionist called Basil Brown who swore by carrot juice and had so much of the stuff that he died by overdosing on vitamin A! I agree, it's the psychological aspect that's the most interesting and difficult. They say "healthy body healthy mind" but I think it's more a case of "healthy mind, healthy body". I guess to me, it doesn't matter if you've got your own ideal body, if you don't see it. Maybe it's a bit chicken and egg... Am I happier because I'm looking after myself better or am I looking after myself better because I'm happier? It does interest me a lot. In theory, losing weight is easy. We all know what to do and what not to do, what to eat and what to avoid. It's just the psychology behind it, what motivates us and why, how we avoid losing heart, the conflicts we feel about what we're doing etc.. There's a lot going on, and thanks, have enjoyed these exchanges. 

Mind if I chime in here and say that I enjoy following your story / your musings / and your conversations here? You might find that a bit rich coming from someone who is 127lbs but I have the same stuff in my head. And it's ridiculous. And I know it. But I can't help it. A lot of us will never be happy with who they see in the mirror. It's not about the number on the scales, but more about the stuff in your head.. ugh. It's so exhausting.  

Hi Andrea, thanks. Yeah, that's exactly it, I'm more worried about my brain than my body. I wonder what it must've been like for previous generations. I know there's always been pressure on people to appear this way or that way, but I feel like we've peaked here now. Maybe as technology has advanced, and in ways life has become so much physically easier, I wonder if it's become more mentally difficult as a result. Our lives have become so convenient so we have freed up a lot of time, and sometimes that's just more time to worry. I know for me, the times I've felt worst about myself in my life have been the times when I've felt like I've had nothing to do, the times I've been unemployed and single and I haven't been able to afford to do anything fun because they're the times that you can drive yourself crazy, overthinking about where you've been going wrong and being overly critical of yourself. I wonder if I'd been a couple of generations older and had a tiring, long, manual job whether I'd feel the way I do from time to time or if I just wouldn't care. I guess people's priorities, concerns and ambitions change and I kinda feel like the 21st century is at cross roads in so many ways. Like Real Gone Girl mentioned above, while we do have a problem with fat shaming there does seem to be a reaction against that and a promotion of less conventional body types. Heh, think the main thing is we've got too much time to think and obsess now, and anyone who's ever wanted to lose weight knows the mental side is the hardest. 

Hi, me again. Thanks for keeping this post active - it's really important to put it out there that regardless of what we know intellectually, it's our subconscious that's treating us poorly and telling us that we're rubbish. I think everyone probably struggles with that in one way or another (one of my school friends struggled to accept exam results were good if she got less than 95% so it isn't only body image). It's taken me a long time to feel comfortable enough to concentrate on losing weight again, stupid as it sounds. There's been a number of self esteem issues going on in the background (not only the bras 😖) that I'll probably not talk about but it's really helped me to respond to and read RGG's responses to your initial post. If anyone feels better in the same way, you've done the community here a great service. Thanks again x 

Our sub-consciences have so much to answer for. And I doubt anyone's got any insecurities that are purely of their own imagination, there's so many outside factors like the fashion industry and social expectations etc. Like you say, it's not only body image too, a lot of us see flaws in inadequacies in ourselves that others don't. We needn't even agree with society's values to be affected by them, just not sure what the answer is to be truly unaffected and happy with who you are. 

likely because if you sort your body out your brain will follow. trust me i no iv done it.. im incredibly proud of my body although i hate it to... im so critical i never congratulate myself ... iv only ever done wrong. i strive for perfection.. its normal for me.. 

I've done it too. Just over three years ago I had myself down to what, at the time, was a ten year low. My brain didn't follow, I didn't feel how I looked and I put on a fair bit again. As I am now, I'm about 40lb more than I was then but still about 80lb below my worst. I don't know why we can be so self-critical, we wouldn't be this critical of others would we? 

Our monster thread grows! Was a bit out of pocket....@Rwaller7483 I laughed at this line, this is brilliant and so accurate - "Am I happier because I'm looking after myself better or am I looking after myself better because I'm happier?" - to which I can only answer (D), All of the above. I think it really is a symbiotic thing, in a sense! @Phooka - that line about taking a long time to feel comfortable enough to concentrate on weight loss, that hits HOME for me 100%. Story too long and personal for FatSecret but just suffice to say, that was spot-on for me, and I truly appreciated that comment, really resonated. As for bras, I'll only ever say this - I rank them in importance along with breathing, eating, sleeping and good shoes. :-) @Andrea Ands - of course nobody would mind! And there's no way to think it isn't relevant because you're at a certain weight....after all, much of this speaks more to self-worth, self-perception and self-identity, not our ACTUAL weight. Just as you say, it's battling the idea of never being happy - an issue that can exist regardless of weight, age, success, anything really. Totally human and universal. @1ultra1 - I do believe that the mind has to start the process, but that also part of that is a balancing act. If we get too hung up on perfection, or youth, or a CERTAIN number - (healthy weights are a pretty generous range, if we're talking about BMI!) - that can be a nasty trap to fall into. Life is SHORT....I believe there has to be a balance - accepting ourselves, but also striving to be the best "ourself" we can be...just not at the expense of our overall well-being or sanity. Otherwise all that work is wasted, our lives spent in needless suffering. Balance, balance, balance...I wish it were an easier thing for everyone to acquire and retain.  

Monster thread indeed, here's hoping this is the only thing that grows for any of us! Well, except happiness, bank balances, that sort of thing. It's a curious one though isn't it? I don't know about you but I've had loads of different reasons for wanting to lose weight over the years. I've tried the wanting to impress someone I liked approach a couple of times which obviously turned out to be a failure. Can't do these things for other people, it's got to be for yourself. And that's something I've been at conflict with for a long time too, doing something positive for yourself doesn't really feel worthwhile when you don't particularly like yourself. Then when you do finally do something positive for yourself you wonder if you're being selfish - there's always SOMETHING isn't there?! Comfort is vital. Probably my biggest ambition in life, to be fair. No idea about bras though, not sure there's a male equivalent of such importance either. So much easier being a guy, I'm sure... Good point to Andrea too, should've said so myself. Course, it doesn't matter what shape or size someone is on the outside, if they don't see it themselves they don't see it. How we change what we see, how we learn to see ourselves how others do, I have no idea. 

That puzzle of "doing for yourself, while working out the idea that you're actually worth that something" is DEFINITELY part of it, at least it was for me, along with what we talked about before, about thinking you were somehow compromising something if you "gave in" and lost weight. I do not feel selfish about it, not anymore anyway, quite the contrary - I see it as no different than any other kind of self-improvement, in that it's ultimately impacted others around me; to my diabetic father battling cancer, I am a reminder that it is never too late to change, and I'm strong enough to be there to help him when he's down and in need of encouragement. To my co-workers, I am more energetic, confident and somehow tougher for having undergone this process. To my boyfriend (who loved me EITHER way, my worst, and best), he has a more confident, happier girlfriend who gets ready twice as fast (lol) as she used to, and to myself - I feel profoundly grateful that I have the gift, the option, to take care of myself in a world where others hardly have the choices and relative peace to even focus inwardly. This is nothing to feel selfish about, and ....well I do kind of get the idea that it's weird to feel "congratulated" for it - but I tend to think people are congratulating us not on how we LOOK, exactly - but for knowing damn well what kind of focus, patience, determination and strength it requires from our internal selves to make it happen. That is worth celebrating. As for self-perception...you know, as a younger woman, I got down to about 52kgs once. I still thought I was fat, every possible little bit of fat I could find, was somehow a huge issue. (Teenager years.) So much so, in fact, that it drove me to despair, 300 calorie days, until I passed out in the middle of music class only to wake up with my worried classmates staring down at me. :P Only to eventually fall off the wagon and start the slow climb to overweight, and finally obese. I look at the one photo of myself today, and think - had I just not been plagued with such extreme views of myself, none of that need have happened. Maybe only because I'm older now, (much, hehe), do I know better than to fall into that trap. I will not be young again. Like everyone else, I will get older. But I'm aiming to get older WELL, as well as I can, as healthy as I can, as robust, happy, optimistic and strong as I can mentally, because as far as I am concerned, we only get to do this once, and I rather drive than look in the rear-view mirror too often! :) 

That puzzle of doing it for yourself is an awkward one. There are so many things that will affect people's self-worth but oddly, usually they're not things that really define us as people. For a lot of people there's a correlation between weight and self-worth and for me I think that's partly true but I also like to play it down too. Managing your weight should never be anyone's be all end all. We shouldn't judge people on things like weight, education, money, relationship status, religion, sexuality - whatever. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm more interested in who someone is, what their outlook and principles are, what makes them tick, their hobbies and interests etc - these are the things that are so much more important than a number on a scale or a bank account or whatever. And I know this. But still, while I do want to play it down I am making my weight a bigger issue than it is, and while I know that doesn't particularly make sense, knowing I don't make sense doesn't quite cut it enough to make me make sense... Bit of a tongue twister there hah. I can't think of a more suitable word, would like to steer clear of words like better, cos really I don't believe in that at all. Ok, stronger, I'll settle for that. I appreciate that how we develop, in any sense, intellectually, emotionally, physically, whatever - I appreciate how that can be so positive for ourselves and the people around us. As for the rear-view mirror, I'm a sucker for nostalgia. But I guess it's also useful to remind yourself every now and again, what you've been through, what you've accomplished and where you are now. And each and every one of us on this site has something to be proud of, we've all had our demons to battle and for you to have gone past both extremes and be where you are today - that's amazing.