wexcpa's Journal, 16 October 2016

garlicnotts are you vegan???   I ask because of your great dislike toward meat and fats  

garlicknotts...glad to hear that you have found your niche..and I have to agree with you that eating less carbs is where it is at, and that sugar is the real killer as it kills the body in more ways than just making you fat. Bacon is a wonderful food, but in many ways it is processed and has added sugars...which can default on all your healthful life efforts. you are correct that healthy natural foods is where it is at...and I do agree that your macros are very important as it is not only important as to what you put in your mouth, but just as important is how much..you are stuffing in there. Activity is also a big part of being health, but when you are really big..it is hard to move.... so the real act of losing weight is not just about one right way, but all the little actions on your road to better health.no one is wrong on their weight loss journey as long as they pay attention to their body, because feeling great is the greatest accomplishment on the road to good health. you cant ell someone they are wrong if it is right them to be at where they are at this moment in time...all you can do is be supportive and give them options that follow a healthy outcome...it is their choice how to arrive at their destination. I can give advice from my journey, but I cannot say that yours is better than anyone else...for I have not walked that path. when I tried CICO (calorie watch diet)...I found that I could not do it...I ended up cheating because I felt like I was always starving and my weight increased astronomically. LC/hf low carb high fat makes me feel satiated (full) so my calorie intake is lower...so you and I get to the same end...just on different roads. It was nice to meat you and learn about your journey and ideas on health.  

Garlicknotts...you really have a strange concept of what Low carb ..high fat really is. I don't eat fried food...I eat more paleo, but I keep my carbs low...you are really hung up on bacon...maybe you should make yourself some and quit trying to control others. this is a place of support...not of control other to YOUR way. I accept you...why cant you accept others?  

WXCPA is my friend and I will support her no matter what direction she chooses to try with her diet.... I believe that those that give her advice or knowledge from their journeys are just that....ADVICE .... not you must do this...because she is an adult and not looking for to be told how to make her journey, but maybe ...a watchout for the rock so she does not trip   

Preface: warning, this is going to be a long reply - read at your own risk! :) Garlicknots, we all appreciate your active participation on this site, and your generous nature in sharing what you've learned about many different aspects of health and nutrition with all of us. However, I do want to address your comment above where you stated: "And no ketosis does not exist it was made up along with a few other bells and whistles that marketing provides you with; keto flu - really? Your brain is now running on fat instead of glucose... Really? Every real bio chemist is rolling on the floor laughing their ass off. Don't forget to buy your keto sticks" I am sorry, but I *strongly* have to disagree with you there. For you, and anyone else interested in a little bit of background about ketosis, and more importantly how the brain functions on ketones vs glucose, I have copied the following article written by Dr. Emily Deans, MD. Titled "Your Brain on Ketones" It is true that some parts of some brain cells can only burn glucose, but fortunately our bodies can turn protein into glucose through a process known as gluconeogenesis. This fact means that while there are essential requirements for both fat or protein (meaning we would die without eating at least some fat and at least some protein), we can live quite happily while consuming no carbohydrate at all. That's not saying there aren't some disadvantages or side effects to a so-called "zero carb" diet, but it won't cause the massive health problems and death that consuming zero fat or zero protein would. All of us who are metabolically healthy will shift into some amount of ketosis, typically overnight while we are sleeping. If your breath is a little funky when you wake up, and your urine smells a bit strong, you may well be in ketosis, which, unless you are a poorly controlled diabetic (a different kind of pathologic ketosis occurs in uncontrolled diabetes), being in ketosis in the morning is a good sign of a healthy metabolism. What does ketosis mean to the brain, and why would it be more healthy, perhaps, than our regular old carbohydrate burning metabolism? And does the high carbohydrate, low fat diet of constant snacking have a cost to our brains by robbing us of more regular and deeper bouts of ketosis? Ketogenic diets, which are very high in fat and low in carbohydrate and protein, have been prescribed for seizures for a long time. The actual research diets used in the past were pretty dismal and seemed to involve drinking a lot of cream and eating a lot of mayonnaise (premade ketogenic formulas are nightmarish combination of omega 6 seed oils and corn solids). At Johns Hopkins, pediatric patients were admitted to the hospital for a 48 hour fast and then given eggnog (minus the rum and sugar, I'm guessing) until ketosis was achieved (usually took about 4 days). In addition, ketogenic diets were calorie restricted to just 75-90% of what would be considered a child's usual calorie intake, and often they were fluid-restricted too (1)! If we're talking soybean oil mayonnaise, you could see how someone could get into trouble with mineral deficiencies and liver problems pretty quickly. To understand "dismal," some of the latest research showed that a "modified Atkins protocol" was just as good as the classic ketogenic diet, and so much more liberating, as the patients were allowed up to 10 grams of carbohydrates daily, and they didn't begin with the fast, and they weren't calorie restricted (2)(3). While the classic ketogenic diet was 4:1:1 fat to carbs to protein. If you use medium chain triglyceride (MCT) oil for 50% of your calories (have to add it in slowly though to prevent vomiting, diarrhea, and cramping!), you could increase the carbohydrates and proteins to a 1.2:1:1 fat:carb:protein and still get the same numbers of magical ketones circulating. And while "MCT oil" sounds nice and yummy when it is gorgeous coconut milk, this MCT Oil 100 percent Pure 32 fl.oz doesn't look quite as appetizing, especially when that is going the be half of what you eat for the foreseeable future (4). You can see why researchers consider ketogenic diets (especially the original versions) to be extremely difficult and unappetizing (they were), whereas seasoned low-carbers (who have a bit of a different idea what a ketogenic diet is) will find that attitude ridiculous, especially when you compare a ketogenic diet to the side effects of some anti-epileptic medications. So it looks like modified Atkins (very very low carb, but not zero carb) and a preponderance of MCT is the same, ketone-wise, for the brain as the classic ketogenic diet. And what does it mean to have a ketogenic brain? Let's examine neurotransmitters and brain energy more closely. Specifically, glutamate and GABA (5). GABA is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the mammalian nervous system. Turns out, GABA is made from glutamate, which just happens to be the major excitatory neurotransmitter. You need them both, but we seem to get into trouble when have too much glutamate. Too much excitement in the brain means neurotoxicity, the extreme manifestation of which is seizures. But neurological diseases as varied as depression, bipolar disorder, migraines, ALS, and dementia have all been linked in some way to neurotoxicity. Glutamate has several fates, rather like our old buddy tryptophan. It can become GABA (inhibitory), or aspartate (excitatory and, in excess, neurotoxic). Ketogenic diets seem to favor glutamate becoming GABA rather than aspartate. No one knows exactly why, but part of the reason has to do with how ketones are metabolized, and how ketosis favors using acetate (acetoacetate is one of the ketone bodies, after all) for fuel. Acetate becomes glutamine, an essential precursor for GABA. What can be confusing is that there are a variety of theoretic advantages in the brain to a ketogenic diet, and we're not sure which ones are more important. A classic ketogenic diet had three major components which were thought to contribute to the anti-seizure effect. One, it was calorie restricted. Just calorie restricting epileptic monkeys (no matter what the macronutrient ratios) reduces seizure frequency (and increases longevity). Secondly, it was acidic, and the extra protons themselves could block proton-sensitive ion channels, or the ketone bodies or fats themselves could affect the neuron membranes, making them harder to excite. (For the biochem geeks out there, ketones or fats seem to affect ATP sensitive K+ ion channels, making hyperpolarization easier to maintain). Thirdly, it lowered glucose levels. And lower glucose is associated with a higher seizure threshold (that's good, one doesn't want to easily have a seizure!) and less neuronal excitability. Gads. Doesn't sound to me like glucose really is the preferred fuel for the brain after all. And now let's really get down to the mitochondrial level. Mitochondria are the power plants of our cells, where all the energy is produced (as ATP). Now, when I was taught about biochemical fuel-burning, I was taught that glucose was "clean" and ketones were "smokey." That glucose was clearly the preferred fuel for our muscles for exercise and definitely the key fuel for the brain. Except here's the dirty little secret about glucose, when you look at the amount of garbage leftover in the mitochondria, it is actually less efficient to make ATP from glucose than it is to make ATP from ketone bodies! A more efficient energy supply makes it easier to restore membranes in the brain to their normal states after a depolarizing electrical energy spike occurs, and means that energy is produced with fewer destructive free radicals leftover. What does it all mean? Well, in the brain, energy is everything. The brain needs a great deal of energy to keep all those membrane potentials maintained, to keep pushing sodium out of the cells and pulling potassium into the cells. In fact, the brain, which is only 2% of our body weight, uses 20% of our oxygen and 10% of our glucose stores just to keep running. (Some cells in our brain are actually too small (or have tendrils that are too small) to accommodate mitochondria (the power plants). In those places, we must use glucose itself (via glycolysis) to create ATP.) When we change the main fuel of the brain from glucose to ketones, we change amino acid handling. And that means we change the ratios of glutamate and GABA. The best responders to a ketogenic diet for epilepsy end up with the highest amount of GABA in the central nervous system. One of the things the brain has to keep a tight rein on is the amount of glutamate hanging out in the synapse. Lots of glutamate in the synapse means brain injury, or seizures, or low level ongoing damaging excitotoxicity as you might see in depression. The brain is humming along, using energy like a madman. Even a little bit more efficient use of the energy makes it easier for the brain to pull the glutamate back into the cells. And that, my friends, is a good thing. Let me put it this way. Breast milk is very high in fat. Newborns spend time in ketosis, and are therefore to some extent ketoadapted. Breast milk is also high in sugar, but babies' brains are so big they can handle a lot more sugar than us full-grown folks. Being ketoadapted means that babies can more easily turn ketone bodies into acetyl-coA and into myelin. Ketosis helps babies construct and grow their brains. (For those interested in nitty gritty details: babies are in mild ketosis, but very young babies seem to utilize lactate as a fuel in lieu of glucose also, and the utilization of lactate also promotes the same use of acetyl-CoA and gives the neonates some of the advantages of ketoadaptation without being in heavy ketosis.) We know (more or less) what all this means for epilepsy (and babies!). We don't precisely know what it means for everyone else, at least brain-wise. Ketosis occurs with carbohydrate and protein restriction, MCT oil use, or fasting. Some people believe that being ketoadapted is the ideal, others will suggest that we can be more relaxed, and eat a mostly low sugar diet with a bit of intermittent fasting thrown in to give us periods of ketosis. (A caveat: I don't recommend intermittent fasting for anyone with an eating disorder without some extra support and consideration). Ketosis for the body means fat-burning (hip hip hooray!). For the brain, it means a lower seizure risk and a better environment for neuronal recovery and repair. ---End article I hope that helps those of you who are considering, or are currently on, a low carb/high fat/ketogenic/Atkins diet and may have come across others telling you that it is somehow not good for you, or that it's pseudo-science. I'm pretty sure biologists and bio-chemists aren't really rolling around on the floor laughing at anyone following this approach in an attempt to live a healthy lifestyle, provided they are doing it with the whole foods that are suggested and recommended in the diets. To Wexcpa: Many hugs and best wishes to you on your weight loss journey! You CAN do it. Life is just one long trial-and-error run. :) 

Omg, they don't allow paragraph breaks in comments?! I am SO sorry! Here's the URL to the article I coped above: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones 

Garlicknotts: Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Have you visited a library lately? You are very closed minded for someone who claims to be an educator. Clean fats are olive oil, coconut oil, veggies like avocados. No one here said it was animal fat. A Keto diet based on Paleo doesn't include processed meat such as bacon or hot dogs. Those contain nitrites and nitrates which are not healthy. But, of course, you must have known that. Please find somewhere else to preach - just not on my journal page, if you don't mind.  

Roobert, thank you so much! I have read many articles and books which echo the information you provided. I appreciate your efforts, and gladly accept your hugs and good wishes. I will continue to trudge along and experiment and hopefully, will find the magic formula.  

You are so welcome Wexcpa! And for anyone who might have missed it in my Wall of Text post (*ashamed*), I want to encourage you all to read that article link above. I hope that helps those of you who are considering, or are currently on, a low carb/high fat/ketogenic/Atkins diet and may have come across others telling you that it is somehow not good for you, or that it's pseudo-science. I'm pretty sure biologists and bio-chemists aren't really rolling around on the floor laughing at ANYONE following this approach in an attempt to live a healthy lifestyle, provided they are doing it with the whole foods that are suggested and recommended in these diets. Blessings to you all, and long, healthy lives! 

clap, clap, clap!!!! excellent post  

@Roobert, I had the same *mortified* feeling when I posted a soup recipe and it formatted into a huge chunk of words, lol! 

for what is's worth, HCG is not a steroid-there is mis-info on the WEB. I am using pharmacy grade high quality HCG through prescription via my Bariatric medical doctor. I have adverse reaction to steroids "cushings syndrome" and I would be in hospital or dead if HCG is a steroid. HCG is a hormone produced by pregnant women that triggers the body to use fat reserves to nourish the growing fetus. Everyone should research before starting a diet and it is best to be guided by a weight management Medical Doctor in collaboration with your primary Doctor. 

garlicknots, you do love the verbal dueling-you may want to be checked for obsessive/compulsive disorder. Of course we create steroids, look up cushings and add to the superior bio education you have. I don't know how I have lived all these years without your mentorship! Be well.... 

wexcpa, your journal was hijacked by a user who is banned. His comments will disappear from your journal sometime tomorrow. He targets newcomers, especially ones who identify as keto or LCHF. Sorry. Most here are supportive. 

Whoops. Looks like he was purged already. 

goodness happens! 

FINALLY! 

Thank you LadyInDenim! I tried looking up "how to block someone who is offensive" but nothing came up. Glad to see this website is self-cleaning, like my oven! Lol 

I delete his comments from my journal without reading them. You'll see him back around, trust me! ☺ 

Garlicknot - will you please be kind enough to read that article I linked above, where it goes through the physiological processes between burning glucose versus burning ketones, and explain to us how ketosis is "bunk"? I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you'd have to say on the subject, because everything I have read (much of it from medical professionals such as MDs) backs up what is said in that article. Any links to peer-reviewed research would be MUCH appreciated, because I am always honestly interested in learning anything I can about the physiology behind weight loss, as I am sure many others here are, too. Thanks! :)