debrafrederick's Journal, 19 October 2023

Oye, I guess I did do as well as usual, I entered the weight and simply saw it did not hit 260 which is what I was aiming for so I was disappointed and thinking I did not do as well as usual. I lost my usual amount, I will probably gain back 1.4 on refeed today leaving me a net loss of 3 lbs...which is on par with my usual weeks. It just was not the scale number I was aiminf for! LOL So, job well done! 

Deb, I'm so sorry that you've had a painful setback! But impressed and amazed with your steadfast commitment to fasting and your great results! Carry on the good work! 

Erika, I have a question/concern that I will present to you because you also read and watch videos. I have mentioned this in a few comments before but it is really bothering me. When I look at my monthly diet calendar I see my average total calories. With my three days a week fasting and eating to comfortably full, my average calories are in the 700-850 range. I am not tired, I don't hit brick walls while doing my workouts....unless it's knee pain. I'm not having major hunger pains during fasts, or even between meals. If I get the urge to have something sweet, we usually have citrus, pears and berries in the refrigerator an I have some. There is so much conflicting information that says women should not fall below consuming 1200 calories per day. Should I be concerned about my below 1,000 calorie/day monthly average? Should I try to force more food? Should I continue what I am doing because it's working and I feel pretty good? Dr. Fung says that I should not worry about my calorie intake as my body will burn whatever it needs from my fat stores, but I do get concerned when I look at my month and see such a small daily average. What is your opinion on this? 

when we go below 1200 calories a day, our body's metabolism resets to that 800 calories a day need. so by going into starvation mode, it takes more work for our body to burn calories.  

"unless drama is something you enjoy" 🤣 Glad you're on the mend! Hey, look! Almost pre-covid weight! 😊🤗 

LOLOLOL Some folks thrive on it and actually seek it out, some even create it for their own perverse pleasure, I'm just not one of them! Zen, read my question to Erika in this post and give me your opinion too. I am eating as much as I am able to right now and this is what I keep coming back to....@Kay621, it's not that I am discounting your opinion, I just don't know your struggle and I'm not sure what you know about keto and fasting. Conventional diet advice is to not go below 1200 calories, but within the fasting and keto communities, there is also differing opinions. I did this 8 years ago and it worked great, I managed to keep it off for about 5 years then went off the rails completely and started eating sugar and grains again and gained it all back but about 10 pounds. I'm looking for opinions about adding more fat calories into my daily intake or simply leave it alone and let my body eat what it needs from my plentiful fat stores.....  

@Zen, Yeah, that was what I was trying for and when I didn't reach it this time around I was disappointed and thought I did not do as well, the gap was just bigger than I thought, I did lose my usual amount of weight, it just was not enough to get me to the pre-covid weight.  

@deb I would recommend this video for your question. https://youtu.be/Falc3P_8Gzg?feature=shared 

@deb IKR?! I know a few that thrive on drama as well. I steer clear...lol. You are doing great, sis!!! Rome wasn't built in a day! I've had some really disappointing & frustrating days (weeks) myself. We've just got to keep pushing bc we know what the other road holds. It's still alot better to head in the right direction, even if it's slow, than to make a u-turn. 

I get my info from the same sources that you do, though I agree that some of those experts differ. What I glean is that we need to eat substantial protein and resistance train in order to avoid losing muscle mass and thereby dampening metabolism. I'm shooting for the goal of 130 gms/day of protein, as that's about 1 gm per pound of ideal body weight. Though I'll never get that small! LOL. I'm not losing anywhere as fast as you are, so I'm thinking of getting back to more extended fasting. I remember, back in ~'16 when I first encountered Phil who was eating one chicken leg for each of three meals. He lost over a hundred pounds. He's here now and back at it, full carnivore. You know that you/we have a nearly unlimited store of energy on our bodies to tap into and that will provide us all the energy -fat and glucose- that we need, so all we need to be providing is the protein to keep our muscles strong. There are multiple incidences of people fasting for over a year and coming out of it much healthier than they started. As long as you are paying attention to your health and feeling well, working out to stay strong, then I don't see a problem. If you see or feel red flags, you will respond. What Kay says does happen to some people, but I think the high protein approach avoids that problem. For me that means that I'm virtually carnivore and don't eat much else. On the days that I eat, I'm at about 1400 kcal. This is an important question and we are all trying to figure it out - how to lose weight without trashing our metabolism. My losses have been slow, but maybe that's okay. One thing to watch out for is hair loss, that's a sign that your body is going into starvation/energy conservation mode. Good questions. 

And yes, the studies show that low cal diets cause slowing metabolism while outright fasting does not, because ketones are muscle, heart and brain protective. It's important to be in ketosis, not just limping along on not enough food. We need that jet fuel (so skip the carbs!) 

Debra I don’t track on FS because I use another app that lets me set nutrition targets. One I set is metabolism and it scores my food choices on whether I meet that target. These are the nutrients it says support a healthy metabolism. This group of nutrients helps you get fuel from the foods you eat by supporting enzymes that break down macronutrients. Metabolism also includes converting food into the building blocks needed to grow and maintain tissues in your body. Your metabolism support score is calculated from vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B6 and choline, as well as iron, magnesium, and manganese. 

check out this video on the question of calories, fat and protein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsyhfEskuUo&t=4s 

They have a lot more information now than they had 8 years ago as far as fasting goes. I have not taken the time to hunt and sit through hours of video and read through page after page of studies to find that little niche where my issues fit. Zen that video was pretty good, I believe I have one of those flexible metabolisms or at least I am getting there. I have no disappointment in my current progress, it's actually better than expected. I eat when I am truly hungry and I stop eating when I feel full. I'm not eating grains daily or even weekly for that matter, avoiding added sugar, having a fruit occasionally. I don't feel deprived. On my eating days, I usually get in between 1,000 and 1,500 calories per day. When you average that over a 30 day period that's where the concern comes in. My macros look good, I'm at 66% fat, 25% protein and 9% carbs. I would go full carnivore, but I do have the colostomy to consider....and keeping some fiber in my diet is important to facilitate regularity. I choose my veggies for their nutrition content, trying to keep a good supply of potassium, magnesium and all the alphabet vitamins. Whole real foods with minimal processing. Even when I eat out I opt for meals without grains and starches, unless I am in a situation where I am pushed for time, as with my babysitting 3 post Offices two weeks ago. According to Dr. Fung, Fasting will keep me in a calorie deficit while protecting me from metabolic slowdown by burning my fat stores to make up for the deficit. My experience with it previously hold that to be true for me. I kinda wish I had never clicked on the month view because looking at the monthly average makes me go WAIT A MINUTE HERE!! Is that right? When I do my weigh in here on FS it pops up a little window that says "You are losing weight at the rate of 4.4 pounds per week, at that rate you should reach your goal in 5 months" or something to that effect, I don't remember exactly what it says, but it feels like it's telling me that I am going too fast. I know!! I sound a little crazy. I never paid attention to it before. Anyways, I have bloodwork being taken Monday and I see Doc Misty on Halloween, so we will get to see what my panels have to say about it. Last time I saw her (2 weeks post Covid) she told me get myself back on track with my weight loss and go back to doing what I was doing before I got sick. She thinks it's the only thing that is wrong with me. She said I am a perfectly healthy obese woman. If I get my weight down 30% I should be a very healthy less obese woman. LOL, we will see come the 31st. 

THIS video is for you if you're unsure with: - How much to eat on an all-meat carnivore diet - How much protein and how much fat - How many calories (Do calories matter on a carnivore diet!?) - What really is 80% fat on a carnivore diet (Context matters) - Why you are stalling in weight - Why you are having hormone and thyroid imbalances 

It seems that you've got it pretty dialed in, Deb. But if you're like me every day has some tweeking. 

Debra, last July when i started my weight loss journey i dropped my calories to 1200. No change, no weight loss. Found out i was in adrenal failure and my metabolism was pretty broken. Dropped to 1000. Very very minor weight loss. Dropped to 700 for nearly 7 months. Lost about 60 pounds. Continued to bump up my mileage on my walks and my workouts got stronger. About 6 months ago i started bumping up to 900-1000 calories. Was losing about 5 pounds per month at that rate. Last 3 months bumped up to 1200-1400. Didnt really lose weight (had surgery end of July) was in repair mode. Last 30 days tried to be 1400-1600 and have started gaining weight again so im guessing my maintenance mode is around 1100-1200. I dont recommend personally going as low as i did last year to lose weight but that being said, the muscle i added and the movement from all the walking (sometimes i was doing 10 miles a day, im back down to 4 now tho) allowed me to slowly increase the calories. Doc says adrenal failure really doesnt repair but im hopeful in January when i get new labs that she will be proved wrong. Why this long message to you? Because it did work, the lower calories, but i do know i was in starvation mode. Lot of syncope going on during that time. A LOT. It can be done but if you get the same result at 1200-1400 calories a day that seems like the healthier modus operandi. Btw hope you heal very quickly thats such a bummer for you. 

I watched the videos Erika and Zen, very informative, watched a few more from Marks Daily Apple and they seemed to click for me, he was talking about a more efficient metabolism and how having a flexible metabolism one that switches easily from burning glucose to burning fat becomes more efficient and does not require as many calories to run the body. It's something to ease my mind as I move forward, thanks guys, sometimes the messages about diet and nutrition that I grew up with, go to war with what I am now doing and it causes conflict within. I appreciate the support and all of the input. YOH, back when I was a stay at home Mom, I joined weight watchers, I lost 100 pounds in just over a year, but I exercised about 6 hours per day. Walking for miles, stationary bike, aerobics videos....I had 3-30 minute workout I did daily. When my daughter started school, I went back to work....got a job with a cleaning crew that cleaned about 5 houses per day from top to bottom, very active work, but not as intense as my workouts. I kept eating on plan, but the weight crept back up. It was discussed in the meetings because I was quite frustrated to learn that the 6 hours a day in fairly intense workouts was all that was keeping me trim and at the time, having no time to work out that way, within a year I had gained most of it back. That was in 1988, I had gone from 230 to 130 following WW to the letter, never cheating and my walks were just a little under a jog with the speed that I moved, I did 15 miles per day on the bike and a hour and a half daily in high impact fast moving aerobics. Once I did not have the time to workout that much....weight was back, it happened over and over. Not everyone has the time to stay in full tilt workout mode all day long, so that may be why you are gaining if you are not back up to your previous exersise level. 

Oh, you Skinny Minny! 261! 🤯🥳 I'm trailing you now, for sure 😅 I understand your sense of caution, here. No one wants to regain 100 lb. "What can I do now as I lose fat to avoid gaining it back in the future?" Time will tell for each of us. I know I can sustain fasting indefinitely and with continued carb and sugar consumption between fasts plus feasts, I'm either losing slowly or maintaining, so it's all good. It's what we can live with. You're not feeling deprived with your 700-800 kcal average, and that should tell you something. I would feel deprived. No question. It's different for each of us 🤷‍♀️ 

I think the strength/resistance training is helping a considerable bit, did not see any effect...after I really looked, from lack of biking and walking this past week.knee is much better now, it's gone back to it's usual dull throb of pain, the swelling is gone. I hopped on the bike for ten minutes this morning and I got no backlash from it yet. Maybe it likes me again! LOL!