HardDaysKnight's Journal, 23 March 2018

Problem: I just came off a 16 hour fast. But I'm really not hungry. But I know I have to eat, 1) because I'm fasting again tonight, but also 2) because I'm lifting tomorrow fasted.

And, I really have no idea now much protein I should have. Dr. Fung seems really against higher protein levels. Ugh. Take my protein supplement and push my protein levels or not?

Diet Calendar Entries for 23 March 2018:
1873 kcal Fat: 106.72g | Prot: 127.14g | Carb: 100.38g.   Breakfast: Hard-Boiled Egg, Cheddar Cheese, Nutiva Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil. Lunch: Whole Milk. Dinner: Burrito with Beef, Beans and Cheese, Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard 100% Whey - Double Rich Chocolate, Nature Valley Sweet & Salty Granola Bars - Almond, Almonds. Snacks/Other: Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard 100% Whey - Double Rich Chocolate. more...
2480 kcal Activities & Exercise: Resting - 16 hours, Sleeping - 8 hours. more...

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Comments 
1g per lb of lean mass for muscle gain, half that for maintenance. this was the body builder Golden rule back when I cared. personally I have managed a pretty intense workout having not eaten for 60 + hours. I have plenty of muscle and I don't eat that level of protein. we are not body builders after all.  
23 Mar 18 by member: mbanje
If you’re just trying to be healthy and/or maintain strength/muscle, .8-1g per pound of body weight is fine, unless you’re overweight, use your target goal weight, so example someone 200lbs wants to get at 120, they use 120g protein not 200. More if you can get it, but the least is .8g per pound. Use your preferences and activity level/how you feel in the gym to dictate how much you want/need as well. 
23 Mar 18 by member: DEADPOOL12345
Also don’t weight lift fasted, that’ll only cause more problems then good, won’t make any difference between fat loss or bot, get a small snack at least before you workout, and a small one or meal at least 1-2 hours after, 3 if you need to stretch it. But if you’re trying to fast that day, ether eat a large meal before working out in a smaller window, so that you won’t need one right after, then you can focus on fasting the rest of the day, or, have something after workout and then fast rest of the day. 
23 Mar 18 by member: DEADPOOL12345
@mbanje: thanks for that; no not body builders, just like to get some more muscle on my old pathetic frame! :) 
23 Mar 18 by member: HardDaysKnight
One of my hard rules is if you're not hungry, don't eat. You won't lose any muscle mass if you lift fasted, excessive protein can be converted to glucose, so be aware of that. Another one of my prime concepts is to skip the supplements, unless you like having expensive urine, because that's about all the benefit you'll get.  
23 Mar 18 by member: Phil
DP12345: thank you --- I need to understand this better; I'm really interested in the HGH stimulation due to fasting --- not sure if a 16 hour fast stimulates it or not.  
23 Mar 18 by member: HardDaysKnight
Phil: yes, good point about the excess protein; and that supplements are horribly overpriced without benefit; excellent comment too about not eating unless hungry. Thanks. 
23 Mar 18 by member: HardDaysKnight
The growth hormone is stimulate with physical and physiological stress on the body (I.e. weight lifting) as well (including many other factors, sleep is another), so you’ll also get the benefit of it happening that way too. As far as the science behind fasting and growth hormonal increas. Here’s a link that should provide some extra insight. Hope that helps some. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... 
23 Mar 18 by member: DEADPOOL12345
for me - I aim for .5 ~ 1 grams protein per lb of body mass. my range is 110g to 175g. I also make sure that I am fueled and hydrated prior to going to the gym - good balance of carbs and protein. I am by no means an expert in this and I would highly recommend seeing a nutritionist to help build a plan for you specifically. watching your labs will help answer those questions too for you.  
23 Mar 18 by member: tahoebrun
alot of miss leading info guys do your own research before advising anyone. first fasted weight lifting is best practice because it will help the body oxidize fats better, the hole point of fasting is to mobilize fats, loosing out on the fasted workout is contradicting. 2 your body needs between .5 to .7 of Your body weight in protein. it will vary by case. Example if your doing a no carb diet, moderate fats diet, you might want to go a bit higher i protein so you can benefit from some gluccogenesis. Again every case is different. 3 while fasting DONT NOT stop eating you will stall your metabolism and stop loosing weight, plus many complications, you need to eat your base line calories, and deplete 400 cals off your diet to start the deficits and aim to workout 1000 cals so. if Your trying to loose weight you do not need protein supplements as some of them have large portions of whey protein, which will spike your insuline due to the high content of sugar, if you really want a protein supplement i recoming a vegan suplement like vega they will not spike your sugar levels. besy of luck 💪💪 
23 Mar 18 by member: eckhart
You don’t need any supplements whatsoever especially to get protein and if you’re getting it from food, +99% of supplements are garbage anyway. And the majority of whey proteins out there, have very little carbs and very low sugar unless you’re getting them specifically with lots of taste, then obviously the sugar intake/carb take will be little bit higher. But for the majority regular protein powders that are whey, Are very low in sugar 
23 Mar 18 by member: DEADPOOL12345
your currently 224, i would suggest getting keto adapted to maximize fat oxidation your macros will look like. 70% fats 20% protein, 40 carb per day once your fully adapted after a month or so. cut off all carbs and do a bit higher protein, macros will look like this fats 50% protein 40% carbs ( veggie no starchy) 10% this combine with exercise and fasting will help mobilize your fats better.. mineral arey during fasting and keto. your body will have a deficiency during. Salt : eat or drink an extra 1000ml per day (half of tea spoon. Add it to your meals or water. Himalayan salt is prefered. While on a high fat diet your body does not retain salt . Potassium: i dont recommended supplementing pills it can be dangerous so just eat foods high in potassium. Kale spinach, avocado etc. Magnesium pills 400 ml per day experiencing dizines and headache while working out its a clear signs of low electrolytes from mineral deficiency. hope this helps  
23 Mar 18 by member: eckhart
Dead... vega is a great none whey protein. Im not demonizing supplement they all have an use whey is good for some one whos under 20% body fat anyone over that they will not benefit from spiking insuline levels . I agree food is always best, with that said its all about balance, if you don't feel like eating or are in rush supplement are there for that reason. Ultimately we can healthiest as we can is physically impossible to get all the nutrients the body needs with just food, as digestability and the health of your guts microdone will play a mayor part.  
23 Mar 18 by member: eckhart
Listen to your body; biofeedback is probably more important than anything else because we intuitively know what to do and what not to do.  
23 Mar 18 by member: Phil
I don't truly fast, but I also never eat before my morning workout. I've tried for two weeks to eat light, high glycemic carbs to fuel my workouts (I know a week isn't long), but everything seemed to drag my workouts down. A lot that I have read tells us that excess protein can be hard on the kidneys and liver. I was doing 1.5 grams per lb, before I researched, now I try to stay below .75, and eat a good meal following my workouts. Who knows, but it ain't worth flirting with the heath of our organs. Peace.  
23 Mar 18 by member: adamevegod1
Dead also FYi while whey protein causes an increase in serum levels of leucine, isoleucine, and valine, it also causes an increase in the hormone glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) and glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1). The most interesting finding in this study is that not only did whey protein caused an increase in serum insulin levels, it caused an increase of insulin, GIP. GLP-1 greater than carbohydrates from white bread. 😉...  
23 Mar 18 by member: eckhart
^ In brief; best avoided.  
23 Mar 18 by member: Phil
The purpose of protein is to repair muscle, tissue, hair, skins. Amongs other functions. When you consume higher amount of protein that your body needs they body will simply conver the exea into sugar in a process called gluccogenesis, or 2 it will become a waste product. When the body is converting protien into aminos it releases a chemical called nitrates this put a a heavy strain on the liver etc. First when eating protein think of your goal and digestability, eating tons of protein at once will mostlikely end up as waste product as the body wont be able to matebolize all that protein some will be also turn into sugar. 1.5 is way to heigh unless your a body builder and have tons of muscles that need repairing ☺ 
23 Mar 18 by member: eckhart
I see what you’re saying now, which makes sense because of whey assuming because having those amino acids in them, would contribute to a higher degree of amino intake simply since bread for example, does not have those aminos in it, that would be my guess. As for insulin being higher from the intake of whey, since consistently eating high glycemic foods may lead to reduced insulin sensitivity. This reduced insulin sensitivity causes the pancreas to release higher amounts of insulin in response to the blood sugar, which would make sense from the protein supplement whey etc. which this response can also contribute to why some people are type 2 diabetic/obese. Example, when eating foods high in dietary fiber and protein slow the absorption rate of sugars and minimize surges of blood glucose. A reduction in blood sugar causes a decrease in the concentration of insulin secreted into the blood. Additionally, when fat is combined with simple carbohydrates, the glycemic effect is reduced, compared to the effects of the independent sugar source.  
23 Mar 18 by member: DEADPOOL12345
Excellent comments. A lot to research, learn and experiment with! 
23 Mar 18 by member: HardDaysKnight

     
 

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