Group Forum: Question about Induction

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GothPrYnCiss

Joined: Jul 14
Posts: 3

        
Posted: 02 Mar 2015, 18:09
Hello! I started Atkins 2 days ago. I have not lost any weight; how many days does it take to work? Also, I ate 12 carbs today, 11 net carbs. I am confused on how this site measures carbs. Can someone please view today's food diary of mine and tell me if I am doing it correctly?

Thank you!
-Julie
rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
Posts: 10

        
Posted: 09 Dec 2015, 09:59
You are not eating enough carbs. You need 20 gm NET carbs DAILY.
For example, say the total grams of carbs listed on a bar's Nutrition facts panel is 20, but it contains 10 grams of Fiber and 7 grams of sugar alcohols. The Net Carb count would be 3 Gm.
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carolhm25

Joined: Aug 15
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Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 14:23
Hi Julie, Have read any books about the Atkins Nutritional Approach? I found the best place to start is with the paperback book, The Atkins Essentials. That really explains phase 1/Induction very well. It also explains phase 2 (OWL) and phase 3 (pre-maintenance) and phase 4 (which is lifetime maintenance and not really a phase but your healthier way of eating for the rest of your life.

This site uses the information in a database. There is also a USDA nutritional database you can use. I found this site tracks carbs and net carbs which you need to do. Agree with rocket girl, 19-22 g of net carbs is the goal for in auction. For example, I have already put in my food for the day. I know that I will be eating 24 g of net carb (just a bit high). However Total carbs =34 g. I do not subtract sugar alcohols from the carb count as Dr. Atkins never did and neither does the author of the Atkins Essentials book. IT is easier to remember carbs - fiber = net carbs is simplest. Sugar alcohol are not well tolerated by all so probably best to avoid them during induction. Also sugar alcohols are found in sweets and you should avoid even low carb versions of sweets for 2 weeks at least. The idea behind in duction is that you need to break your sugar habit. Th only way to do that is avoid sweets of any kind.
rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
Posts: 10

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 15:30
Totally agree. I have lost 20 lbs in the last 3 months. The fact that I am STILL on the Atkins lifestyle is answer enough for anyone who doubts if it is sustainable. I did not really understand how much "white" food I ate and how much it fed my unending Sugar Monster. My cravings have stopped. I eat salads. I have more energy. I eat meat. I still want to lose 20 more lbs but I have faith in myself. I have S.M.A.R.T. goals. I am still in Phase 1 but I am not kicking myself if I have a slice of pizza every once in a while, which I have done twice.... Actually it wasn't as good as it used to be.. I can take it or leave it now😊. So, hang in there. I just keep thinking about the FAT my body is BURNING OFF because I am not feeding it SUGAR.
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FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
Posts: 233

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 16:49
I would have to disagree about needing x amount of carbs. Protein & fat are the only essential macros. Meaning, the essential amount of carbs is 0. Dr. Westman, one of the authors of the book that this group is based on actually states in this presentation that SOME people absorb fiber, recommending no more than 20 total carbs. If you know for sure that you don't absorb fiber, then sure count net.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/how-to-do-an-lchf-diet-dr-eric-westman
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rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
Posts: 10

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 17:40
Totally disagree. But everyone's body is different and I know how my body responds. Every BODY needs some type of those nutrients. You cannot live totally without carbs. Sorry.
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FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
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Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 18:07
http://highsteaks.com/carbohydrates/
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FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
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Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 18:11
Why not?

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/wonders-of-the-ketogenic-diet-two-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat-for-an-entire-year/
"...But my friends call me JennyCraig...lol"

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rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
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Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 18:57
You lose it your way, Jenny Craig, and I will stay comfortable with mine. If it works for you why try and confuse someone else who is trying to understand a program THEY have chosen?
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1point21giga...

Joined: Apr 14
Posts: 187

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 18:59
Atkins is a ketogenic diet. Carbohydrates aren't required to sustain a ketogenic diet. The idea that one MUST eat any carbs on a ketogenic diet is false. Ketosis can be maintained by limiting carbohydrates, the exact number of carbohydrates varies from person to person which accounts for the wide variations on the many different incarnations of the low-carb class of diets. If any given person likes eating "foundation veggies", that's great and they should eat as many as they want as long as it doesn't impact their ketosis, but the concept of "foundation veggies" was added to the Atkins Nutritional Approach to make the diet sound healthier and appease the detractors. Unfortunately it also gave low carb detractors a silent, if unacknowledged and unmerited victory inasmuch as they can now claim that they influenced the direction of the diet, truly unfortunate because the diet didn't need any improvement, already being a healthy way to eat. The concept of a "need" to eat at least 20g of net carbs is a result of pandering to the low-fat and calorie counting medical community and rivals of ketogenic diets. Don't fall for the current Atkins bluster, they just want to sell you sugar alcohol.
rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
Posts: 10

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 19:10
Oh, for heaven's sake. Whatever works for you should be the program you use.
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FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
Posts: 233

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 19:13
By all means stay with what is working for you, rocketgirl. I'm not trying to confuse anyone. I was originally trying to actually clarify and offer advice for the poster based on the facts stated by the authors of the book that this group is based on. Forgive me if I was wrong for that. Then you say "you cannot live totally without carbs. Sorry." I then only questioned why you say that with all of the evidence provided. Never meant that you should change your train of thought, just try to explain to you that I CAN live with mine. Keep doing what works for you BY ALL MEANS. My advice was for someone that counting net isn't working too great for, as I said in my original comment.
"...But my friends call me JennyCraig...lol"

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1point21giga...

Joined: Apr 14
Posts: 187

        
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 19:13
That was a great rebuttal, rocketgirl, you addressed every single point I made. And if you actually read my post, I had the same conclusion you did, but the myth that, "20g of net carbs from foundation veggies MUST be eaten" seriously needs to go away.
carolhm25

Joined: Aug 15
Posts: 8

        
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 16:45
Sorry folks. Yes you DO need some carbs to remain alive. Biochemically, it would be difficult to survive with zero carbs. I mean absolutely zero carbs! That is why I recommended reading Dr. Atkins books and others who have researched/live a low carb lifestyle. Healthier habits should be the goal. Cutting out one macronutrient makes no sense at all! Just like cutting out all protein or all fat makes no sense. I strongly believe that there is a lot more biochemically individuality than many recognize. There are people who have to limit their intake of protein to induction levels (20 g) every day of their lives. Just like there are probably people who need to limit their carb intake to similar levels (20 g). The goal is finding what works for you.
carolhm25

Joined: Aug 15
Posts: 8

        
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 16:48
Also the ANA never had a goal of 20 g of net carbs from onlyfoundation vegetables. Please read Dr. Atkins' own books. He never recommends getting all 20 g only from foundation vegetables.
1point21giga...

Joined: Apr 14
Posts: 187

        
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 17:03
Carbohydrates aren't required to sustain ketosis. Atkins is a ketogenic diet therefore no carbs are necessary to maintain weight loss while on Atkins. Seriously, read my post that's sandwiched between two of rocketgirls posts above. There's no need to reassert the points I made above because no one has addressed them. Read my post and tell me where I'm wrong.
FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
Posts: 233

        
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 20:26
I agree 100% with you, Phil. My research has noted the same points you made made.
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rocketgirl51

Joined: Apr 13
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Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 21:28
OK, everyone. Here goes. At the very beginning of all this spirited to and from, it only came about because if a question from March 2015. "How many days does it take to work?...and... I am confused how this site measures carbs". The writer had only eaten 12 carbs that entire day. I merely answered in am effort to tell her how to count net carbs and maybe, maybe explain why she had not lost any weight yet.
Oddly enough. I have not seen her in any if these postings. I was making an attempt to explain the Induction Phase because that is where I was when I posted that snippet of obviously inadequate, un-biochemical information. I have read the New Atkins book.. Twice... Makes sense to my registered nurse mind. Ketogenic is good, ketoacidosis is bad. So, Atkins HAS changed over the years. I don't need a link to know that. I actually thought this was a Support Forum but it seems a little spiteful. I read the posts. Somebody needs sugar.
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1point21giga...

Joined: Apr 14
Posts: 187

        
Posted: 15 Jan 2016, 07:01
rocketgirl, sticking to the narrow parameters of your knowledge of ketogenic diets, answer this question; how will increasing carbohydrates help a person reach ketosis? Is increasing carbohydrates a strategy suggested in The New Atkins? I keep copies of Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution and Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution on my desk and I refer to them all the time. When a person is metabolic resistant carbs are decreased, not the other way around. Please explain your advice to increase carbs. Your last sentence above is a pretty terrible thing to say, "somebody needs sugar". What's up with that?
FatGirlJenny

Joined: Oct 15
Posts: 233

        
Posted: 15 Jan 2016, 07:29
ketoacidosis, is something that only a type 1 diabetic typically gets because of a healthy body being able to turn protein and even some fat into glucose. This is called gluconeogenesis.
Ketoacidosis begins at 10 millmolar of blood ketones, optimal ketosis ranges from .5 to 3.5. If too many carbs are ingested, one will never reach .5.

I tried to avoid saying it, but I just HAVE to say that I have never seen a low Carb group, let alone induction, push any type of carbs.
"...But my friends call me JennyCraig...lol"

Actual start weight before FS 243lbs (5'5" size 22-24)

****Wanna know how? dietdoctor.com****