U.S. Health Care

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debbra

Joined: Nov 08
Posts: 273

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 12:08
I put this information under "Diet Talk" because being overweight can lead to many health issues, and if our ability to seek health care here in the United States is weakened in any way, it can, of course, be disastrous! For all you concerned U.S. citizens, who are afraid that our future health care is in jeopardy with the current administration's efforts to radically change things, please take a moment to fill out this petition. Thanks! http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 12:52
I know...

Healthcare... for EVERYONE!?!?

What the hell are they thinking!? Bunch of f***ing Socialists if you ask me. We don't need any of that socialized BS in America. We can do just fine without socialized institutions like public schools, libraries, police, firefighters, etc. I can look after me and my own thank you very much!!!

They're trying to put us on the same level as those third world countries like Canada, and all those snotty European countries. I mean, seriously. What good ever came out of Europe!? My point exactly. And you can't trust those Canadians. I've seen 'em on TV. Their whole heads separate when they talk. It's weird.

........

Too much? Yeah, it's been a bad day. Sorry.

By the way, I do not concur.

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
splendidhamm...

Joined: May 09
Posts: 49

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 13:12
Divided By Zero wrote:
I know...

Healthcare... for EVERYONE!?!?

What the hell are they thinking!? Bunch of f***ing Socialists if you ask me. We don't need any of that socialized BS in America. We can do just fine without socialized institutions like public schools, libraries, police, firefighters, etc. I can look after me and my own thank you very much!!!

They're trying to put us on the same level as those third world countries like Canada, and all those snotty European countries. I mean, seriously. What good ever came out of Europe!? My point exactly. And you can't trust those Canadians. I've seen 'em on TV. Their whole heads separate when they talk. It's weird.

........

Too much? Yeah, it's been a bad day. Sorry.

By the way, I do not concur.


Teh scarcasms. You have it but I wonder how many people are going to take you seriously lol.

And yeah at the rising cost of health care, you better do everything possible to stay in good heath lol.

Edit: I just went to that website and I have to say its sad in the world's most powerful and richest country it can provide basic universial healthcare to all of its citizens and there's people that are cool with that. All I can say that they stand on the wrong side of history cause this country has Medicare and Social Security and were so far from being socialist.
jessyline

Joined: Apr 09
Posts: 553

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 13:15
Divided, when I first read your post I was ready to send you a very unfriendly private message. Beeing a snotty French, and Canadian immigrant, of course I didn't have the physical and mental ability to understand your humour... Now I think (but who knows) that I got it...Wink

I know that USA have a totally different point of view on many things, and I REALLY don't want to do any politics here, but European and Canadian health care work. and everybody can expect to receive treatments when they need, even if they are poor. of course some people abuse the system, but this is just human you wont change that. and I've always been able to choose my doctor and my insurance.

But I don't know enough about it, so... I'm gonna shut my separating head...
health is a choice. it's a gift we choose to do to ourselves.
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 13:53
splendidhammer wrote:

Teh scarcasms. You have it but I wonder how many people are going to take you seriously lol.

And yeah at the rising cost of health care, you better do everything possible to stay in good heath lol.



I can neither confirm nor deny the possibility of anyone taking me seriously... only that doing so would be a threat to one's own sanity.

I light of all that jazz, I have strong feelings about this issue. It was only a few years ago that I could not afford health insurance and found myself in a situation where I needed healthcare badly. I had severe burns that should have landed me in an ER's burn ward, but I wasn't insured and I knew I didn't have the money for treatment. It was the most painful experience of my life, one that nothing else has ever come close to (and I've had my share of unfortunate mishaps).

And to think that if I had been born a few miles north everything would have been taken care of. So, conservatives, please excuse me if I don't see the brilliance in this system. It's possible I'm guided (or even blinded) by my own experiences, but I see two opposing systems... one based on charity, and one based on greed.

I see so many people clinging to their wretched ideal that I can only assume they have some variant of Stockholm syndrome. I just don't believe that the "have nots" are any less deserving than the "haves". Forgive my naivety.


......

Again, the wording is strong. It's been a L O N G day.

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 13:55
jessyline wrote:
Divided, when I first read your post I was ready to send you a very unfriendly private message. Beeing a snotty French, and Canadian immigrant, of course I didn't have the physical and mental ability to understand your humour... Now I think (but who knows) that I got it...Wink


Yes, it was a joke. A bad one I must admit.

I love the French, and the Canadians.

And especially the French Canadians. Wink

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
lgatzke

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 29

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 13:56
Health care should be a right, not a privilege. Europe has us beat, and it's high time we come around. Smile I'm hoping for socialized health care for my generation, and for my children's. Let's start taking care of everyone instead of only taking care of ourselves! PS: Divided, you SERIOUSLY had me scared for a minute.... Surprised)
"Charm is deceitful and beauty fades, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised." -Proverbs 31:30

Believe in the journey, rather than the destination.
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 14:03
lgatzke wrote:
Divided, you SERIOUSLY had me scared for a minute.... Surprised)


Oh, come on! You know I'm a dirty, dreadlocked, patchouli smellin' hippie at heart. Laughing

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
debbra

Joined: Nov 08
Posts: 273

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 14:35
Well, I'm very glad I've started a debate. My POV -- obviously, because I'm the one who started this post -- is that universal healthcare will hurt more people than help. That's my opinion, simply put. Healthcare costs are high, it's true. But they weren't always. Tort reform would help doctors keep costs lower, for example. There are many ways to change the healthcare system for the better. I just STRONGLY believe that producing another government mandate is absolutely the wrong way to go. It just drains people's pockets from the other end. And as for stories, I've heard of nightmares where people couldn't get the healthcare they needed, even though they could afford it, because it wasn't being offered by the government, including a good friend of mine who had a horrible experience when she was up in Canada (no offense to Canadians). I don't want my choices being made for me by a large entity that is trying to cover everyone's needs at once. It's not efficient. Just me and my doc -- it's what I want, and I don't want that to change. So for anyone who agrees, there's a nice petition to sign, if you care to. If not, feel free to join in the discussion. Thanks!!!!
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."
information

Joined: May 07
Posts: 529

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 14:50
Divided By Zero wrote:
I know...

Healthcare... for EVERYONE!?!?

What the hell are they thinking!? Bunch of f***ing Socialists if you ask me. We don't need any of that socialized BS in America. We can do just fine without socialized institutions like public schools, libraries, police, firefighters, etc. I can look after me and my own thank you very much!!!

They're trying to put us on the same level as those third world countries like Canada, and all those snotty European countries. I mean, seriously. What good ever came out of Europe!? My point exactly. And you can't trust those Canadians. I've seen 'em on TV. Their whole heads separate when they talk. It's weird.

........

Too much? Yeah, it's been a bad day. Sorry.

By the way, I do not concur.


LOL! Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion; but, I'd say that, with this post, you have completlely recovered from your bad day. Well said Divided By Zero! Very Happy

"I will work in my own way, according to the light that is in me." - Lydia Maria Child
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 15:26
debbra wrote:
I don't want my choices being made for me by a large entity that is trying to cover everyone's needs at once. It's not efficient.


And I'm sure you are and would continue to be well taken care of under our current system. As would I now that I am insured.

However, the U.S. Census Bureau has reported that there are approximately 46 million people without health insurance in the United States. That's about 16 percent of the population. One out of every five or six people. What do we do about that? Let them rot? Do they not deserve it because their paychecks are smaller?

If I have to sacrifice a little bit of 'efficiency' to do the right thing and take care of everyone, so be it. I'd make that choice willingly.

To be quite honest, our system isn't that efficient or great for how we perceive ourselves. We are ranked 37th in health care by the World Health Organization. Quick, name 36 other countries you think are better than the U.S.! How well did you do?


P.S. Canada and France rank much higher on that list. Wink


"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
debbra

Joined: Nov 08
Posts: 273

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 15:38
I've gone to doctors who are not on my plan, and I have been able to work something out with them. I got a good lower rate, and then they let me pay it off slowly. They are happy not to have to deal with the insurance companies. One doesn't need insurance to have health care. And I agree that our health system is broken, but I just don't agree with you on the remedy for fixing it. My belief is that once the government gets involved, things become much more expensive for everyone. And isn't it true that when one goes to an emergency room, the hospital is not allowed to deny treating you if you have no insurance? But the main thing is what's the best for the most amount of people? And I believe that government needs to stay out of it. That's generally my philosophy about the freedoms we have here, that it means the government should be involved in our lives as little as possible. Socially, economically! I'm a believer in leave-us-alone politics.
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."
katana_x

Joined: May 09
Posts: 321

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 16:36
Sorry, debbra, but I could not possibly disagree more. There are plenty of other countries out there who use a system of socialized medicine, and they are doing just fine (much better than we are, actually).

It seems to me that the plan being proposed would not only be cheaper, but it would also be more humane. There are too many people out there who simply can't afford medical care. And quite frankly, I don't consider saving a little bit in taxes worth watching my neighbors waste away from lack of health care.

My mother recently had a series of debilitating migraines. Due to the economy, she has been laid off and no longer has health insurance. Yes, the urgent care clinic was willing to take her, but do you know how much those headaches cost? Nearly $7,000. That's $7,000 that was supposed to go to my little brother's college fund.

And if she hadn't had it at all, they'd be even worse off. There are thousands of families in this country who cannot afford health care AT ALL. That's thousands of mothers and fathers and children whose health is at risk simply because they don't rake in the big bucks.

For now, I'm going to leave my meager contribution at that. My opinion is strong, but I have house guests, and limited time to hash out the details of this debate at the moment. Perhaps I'll come back later. Wink
wintersmith

Joined: Mar 09
Posts: 142

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 17:31
I'm for whatever system does the following best:

Insures the most people for the least amount of cost.

For good or ill, that appears to be a nationalized system. This is based entirely on comparisons made between the EU and Canadian systems vs. the current US one. Lower premiums, lower medical costs across the board. Gains made because people either stop paying out of pocket for the cost or people accept lower wages because it "comes with insurance".

Ultimately, though, my religious and moral side makes me ask the somewhat cliched question: What would Jesus want? Would He want us to consign the meekest among us to illness or disease because the cannot pay for it? Or would He want us to institute a means that makes sure that they get the medical treatment they need? I know what I think the answer is, regardless of my political leanings.
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 17:46
wintersmith wrote:

Ultimately, though, my religious and moral side makes me ask the somewhat cliched question: What would Jesus want? Would He want us to consign the meekest among us to illness or disease because the cannot pay for it? Or would He want us to institute a means that makes sure that they get the medical treatment they need? I know what I think the answer is, regardless of my political leanings.


The Religious Right does not approve of your common sense. Prepare for excommunication in 3...2...

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
wintersmith

Joined: Mar 09
Posts: 142

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 17:49
Excommunicated or not, it is a good question to ask, and if the answer makes the questioner uncomfortable, perhaps they're doing something wrong...

It works even if you aren't religious, just for reference. Select any individual you believe is a paragon of morality and ethics (Gandhi is a great example). Ask what they would do when confronted by a similar question.
SelinaMinus6...

Joined: May 09
Posts: 195

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 18:04
woo for being English with our free healthcare it definitly helps i grew up in a low income single parent family and without it i would have been in a lot of trouble. The only people who generally don't agree with it are rich enough to afford healthcare but i always just think what would they think if for some reason they lost their wealth and one of their children or loved ones got sick i'm pretty sure they would soon change their tune.
I have a blog Smile http://thewolfandthefox.blogspot.com/ not super diet related but a bit!!
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 18:10
debbra wrote:
I've gone to doctors who are not on my plan, and I have been able to work something out with them. I got a good lower rate, and then they let me pay it off slowly. They are happy not to have to deal with the insurance companies. One doesn't need insurance to have health care.


There are docs that will do this, but not all of them will. Many will throw you to a collection agency without a second thought. Even so, many people still can not afford to be cash pay patients.


debbra wrote:
And I agree that our health system is broken, but I just don't agree with you on the remedy for fixing it. My belief is that once the government gets involved, things become much more expensive for everyone.


We spend more on healthcare in this country than any European country with a universal system. In fact, we spend MUCH more. Universal health care has been proven to be a cheaper option.


debbra wrote:
And isn't it true that when one goes to an emergency room, the hospital is not allowed to deny treating you if you have no insurance?


You can not be denied treatment at an ER, but you are not denied the full bill for your stay either. How many people do you know that can afford a $4,000 bill on a whim? That was what my brother's uninsured ER bill was a few months ago, and all he ended up getting was stitches.


debbra wrote:
But the main thing is what's the best for the most amount of people?


Let's say we took everyone under the age of 13 and made them slaves. They had absolutely no rights and had to follow every command no matter what it was. This would benefit most people, as most people are over the age of 13, but that doesn't mean it's right. That statement leads down a very slippery slope.


debbra wrote:
And I believe that government needs to stay out of it. That's generally my philosophy about the freedoms we have here, that it means the government should be involved in our lives as little as possible. Socially, economically! I'm a believer in leave-us-alone politics.


I'm a believer in by the People, FOR the People. The government should be involved when We want them to be, and not when We don't.

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
Divided By...

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 18:16
wintersmith wrote:
Excommunicated or not, it is a good question to ask, and if the answer makes the questioner uncomfortable, perhaps they're doing something wrong...

It works even if you aren't religious, just for reference. Select any individual you believe is a paragon of morality and ethics (Gandhi is a great example). Ask what they would do when confronted by a similar question.


Idea I'm going to start using this as a diet tool.

6AM - Don't want to wake up to go running.
What would Jillian Michaels do?
*puts on running shoes, heads out the door for a run*

"You are now watchin' the throne. Don't let me into my zone. Don't let me into my zone.
I'm definitely in my zone."
debbra

Joined: Nov 08
Posts: 273

      quote  
Posted: 24 Jul 2009, 18:49
We all agree in healthcare coverage for the MOST people. I don't disagree with that. But I strongly believe that the high cost of medicine in this country COMES from the involvement of the government. Medicare is very wasteful and is going bankrupt. And doctors are forced to pay huge insurance fees to fend off greedy lawyers, which is why I mentioned tort reform. Also, people tend to treat entitlements wastefully. There are so many good ideas out there on how to reform the medical industry that do not involve the government. The question is how do we keep prices low AND keep our freedoms? Government involvement is not the answer! From the obvious good intentions comes high prices, waste, limited choices, and good people leaving the medical field. People need to be left alone. That's freedom.
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."



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