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High Fat and Insulin Levels: Effect or No Effect?Diabetes is a fact of life in my family. While a couple of my relatives were born with Type I, a far more significant number have developed Type II. All four of my grandparents and both of my parents had Type II diabetes. The only one still alive is my mother who at 75 years of age evidently recovered from the illness about 10 years ago. She changed her diet radically to include lots of vegetables, and small servings of anything else. She did not give up her evening drink (I don't think anyone can get that away from her, LOL), but she uses no sugar or sugar substitute. The reason why I share this information is because a statement I read a couple of weeks ago keeps niggling in my mind. The statement is that eating fat does not cause an insulin response. I had been reading up on diabetic meal planning since my diagnosis, and saw several articles that cautioned against too much fat. I will not mention all of them, but these two stand out because they were simple enough for non-scientific me to understand: http://www.joslin.org/dietary-fat-can-affect-insulin-requirements-in-type-1-diabetes.htmlhttp://www.mendosa.com/The-Fat-of-the-Matter-How-Dietary-Fat-Effects-Blood-Glucose.htmI am prediabetic so I am concerned. I am wondering whether anyone on FS has experienced an increase in blood glucose and increased insulin levels several hours after eating a high fat diet. Disclaimer: This is not an attempt to provoke a war of words among defenders of their diets of choice. It is a simple request for information based on experience so that I might become better informed.
Diet Calendar Entry for 19 July 2016:
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800 kcal
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Fat: 53.45g | Prot: 28.79g | Carb: 73.35g.
Lunch: Hamburger or Hotdog Rolls, Cooked Okra (Fat Added in Cooking), Chop't Avocado. Dinner: Carnation Evaporated Milk, Quick Oatmeal (1 or 3 Minutes), Bob's Red Mill Chia Seed, Bob's Red Mill Flax Seed. Snacks/Other: Puerto Rican Style Fried Chickpeas (Garbanzos Fritos), Great Value Cashew Halves & Pieces. more...
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 Comments
First, a disclaimer: I am NOT a nutritionist, dietician, or any kind of medical researcher. Having said that, IMHO the LCHF diet is suspect. I can't believe, from my (admittedly) limited research, that LCHF is a good idea; it's probably effective for SOME people, but it's just not for me. I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all diet. We all have different physiological needs, metabolisms, tastes & lifestyles. People who've successfully lost weight AND kept it off made permanent lifestyle changes, and there's some research that suggests they came up with their own method to do so. And those methods are as different as there are different people succeeding in this effort. I am still working on finding my own method, making my own lifestyle changes. It's an ongoing process. When I figure out what does work for me I'll let you know (haha!). In the meantime, do what YOU think is best for your health. Good luck!
19 Jul 16 by member: Toni Bourlon
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Thank you for responding, Taurielfan. Like you, I too am trying to find what works for me. I look forward to reading your success story.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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It's not that it doesn't provoke an insulin response..ANYthing you eat will do that. However the response is apparently much smaller than carbs or protein *by comparison*. That being said, the first article was regarding type 1 diabetes, which is a whole different set of parameters from T2. And they were feeding them pizza, fer cryin out loud! Fat in combination with carbs will, of course, help elevate and KEEP elevated, the blood glucose. Add in a significant amount of protein, and yes, fat will look like the culprit. The second article is lockstep with the ADA diet, and has been proven to be idiotic in the face of what causes diabetes. I think what has you running in circles is that the high fat is only part of the equation in HFLC. Carbs have to be kept minimal for the fat do do its job, and that's switching your body from burning sugar to burning fat. Once that has been achieved, you can give your body the choice of consuming fat you eat, or fat you have stored.
19 Jul 16 by member: mskestrela
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The article did not say that they were fed pizza. It just identified pizza as being among the high fat foods that people consume. The first article did not identify which foods they were given, but simply said that the meals were 'carefully controlled'. Thanks, so very much, though, for the clarification that anything I eat will provoke an insulin response. So eating high fat and high carb will be a double-whammy, as the carb will cause a quick, high spike and the fat will cause a delayed rise.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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In a nutshell, yep. Have you watched any of Dr. Fung's videos on diabetes and hyperinsulinemia? This is a really good one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rc
19 Jul 16 by member: mskestrela
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Thanks I will check it out.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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Delede, It's so important to understand that if you are going to eat the high fat, you have to drastically cut the carbs. The combination of fat and carbs raises blood sugar and is indeed very fattening; that's why cake and ice cream, baked goods, pizza are all so bad for you. The High Fat Low Carb formula is about 75%fat, 17% protein and 8% carbs. It works because the fat just doesn't trigger insulin, much, to you end up burning your own fuel: body fat. And the low carbs is just so low, it doesn't trigger insulin either. Hope that helps.
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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Erikahollister, although I generally reduce my carbs (except for those few days when I eat crazy but still under the RDI), I find it almost impossible to get those percentages as I am a lacto-vegetarian. Thanks, though for clarifying that the fat still triggers the insulin, just not as severely. Mskestrela, thanks a lot for that video link. After looking at it I am happy that I refused to use insulin when I developed gestational diabetes having my son. At that time I asked for a dietary alternative and stuck to it faithfully, however I lapsed badly over the six years since his birth. I see that Dr Fung presents "acute profound caloric reduction" as the solution to diabetes. This, basically is what my mom did in that she went on a very, very low calorie diet.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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Thanks Delede...Interesting...I've got diebetis in our family as well (two type 1's, multiple type 2's). Most of the research I've looked at is in regard to type 2 (because it is preventable & was most affecting me). While it is well known that being overweight (belly fat) and poor eating GREATLY increases the risk of type 2, this is the first mention I've seen of fat intake negatively affecting insulin response and blood sugar for either type 1 or type 2...in fact I was instructed that fat helps slow the affect of glycemic response through regulating the intake of sugar digestion and indirectly blood sugar. The links do reference research, so it would be good to review the original research and meta studies (if done) regarding same. In the past I've reviewed some research backing up website statements and found that the statements aren't supported by the research, not saying that this is the case here, but often a clearer picture emerges after reviewing the original research.
19 Jul 16 by member: Steven Lloyd
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Steven Lloyd, I guess that fat is 'less bad' to the diabetic than carb. However I am presently looking at the Dr Fung video that Mskestrela recommended and it is very informative. He presents fasting as one of the most effective methods of reversing type II diabetes in as little as a month.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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I'm so glad you found Fung's information useful. I come from a family that was basically killed off by diabetes. Several aunts and uncles were buried one piece at a time...toes, then legs, then fingers...blindness. Being aware, I cut way back on sugar and fruit about 30 years ago. In the back of my mind, I knew there was a connection between carbs and diabetes, but it didn't really click for me until recently, when I was led to the info from Fung, Phinney and Volek.
When I first started LCHF, I was almost forcing the fats part of it, but when I thought about it, it really boiled down to what I said above: once you have switched your body to burning fat over glucose, then you can either get those fats from what you eat, or from your belly. I've dialed WAY back on the fats, still do moderate protein, and carbs all come from veggies. It is more challenging to do LCHF being vegetarian, but there are some excellent websites on it, with great recipes.
19 Jul 16 by member: mskestrela
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Ok! Dr Fung has won me! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a2Fsfa8e4I At 9:30 he explains that keto will get blood sugars down but it will not necessarily get insulin down, because the proteins and the fats still raise insulin, although not to the same degree as carbohydrates do. However fasting reduces both the blood sugar and the insulin.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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Yepper! It just makes so much damned SENSE! Just as the USDA dietary guidelines for the last 40 years have been a cruel joke, so, too, the ADA guidelines are nothing more than political interests aimed at keeping diabetics drug-dependent. It's so nice to hear the truth for a change!
19 Jul 16 by member: mskestrela
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And it also works for weight loss, so a win, win for surviving and thriving!
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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Delede, the other thing to know about ketosis is that it takes a few days to achieve the metabolic shift ~each time~ you slip out of it. So, cheat days become not worth the effort. If you look at my weight loss chart you will see two stalls; those were times that I slipped out of ketosis and had to correct for days before the weight loss started again.
Ignore the giant blips, those are errors I couldn't figure out how to fix. This is a plan for those who are ready for serious adherence. It works wonders, and many of us are devotees, because it is saving us and giving us back our health. But it is not something that you can do on a day by day basis, that's just not how it works. If you want to try it, give it a month or two of strict adherence, then decide if it's the right WOE for you.
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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And the intermittent fasting is a step up from there. It speeded up my losses.
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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Since you are a lacto vegetarian, butter and cheese, cream and sour cream along with coconut oil and olive oil, will get you all the fat you need. Eggs?
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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I do not eat eggs. I do not have a problem finding fats, but I don't like them very much. My bigger challenge is cutting out carbs and getting enough protein. Still, I am continuing to improve, and the weight is creeping down.
19 Jul 16 by member: delede
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Ah...... well then LCHF may not be the plan for you if you don't tolerate fats well, Proteins also raise insulin, so they need to be kept moderate. I find that veggies cooked in butter, olive oil or in my case bacon are quite delicious. The fat just becomes the flavoring for the veg. Happy hunting for your perfect plan!
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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For so many years I was told that fats are bad for you. It took me a long time to accept that they are good for me and in fact are the key to weight loss. Go figure!
19 Jul 16 by member: erikahollister
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