delede's Journal, 04 July 2016

I see. I am prepared to experiment with my body to determine what works best for ME rather than to be a disciple of any set program. I know for sure that refined carbs are toxic for me- the modest amount of weight that I have lost so far was merely as a result of eliminating sugars and flour. I still used moderate fruit and a very limited amount of starchy vegetables, and a fair amount of nuts. I will check out if I will continue to lose without having the 60% fat each day. I actually find it a waste of my limited amount of calories to consume spoons full of oils that I do not enjoy, instead of cups full of low-glycemic fruits and vegetables. That being said, I want to know if there is any science behind the concept that one must eat fats in order to program the body to burn fats. 

yes you can achieve ketosis by not eating anything "starvational" or from ultra low carbo hydrate intake "nutritional". Everyone is different. for me it does assist with satiety, and so it makes it easier to have a hypocaloric diet, and lose weight. With some people they eat too much and get fat like"Jimmy Moore", who is a big proponent of it. typically very low fat diets actually have a track record of out performing ketogenic diets. Don't believe anyone that tells you ketosis helps you lose weight. that is a very broad statement. For me (me only) It allows me to cut my calories to 1800 without being hungry. Doesn't work for everyone (im 5' 11"). When I do this all of my carbs come from leafy vegetables like greens or bok choy,and some potato starch (good for gut) Speaking of cashews and almonds...if you are hungry and have a large supply it is very easy to eat more calories than you need with snacks like nuts....for me anyway (a handful is like 200 calories and I would typically have more than one handful. To reach ketosis it takes me 3 full days of less than 30 g of carbs per day to see ketones in my urine..starting from a standard American diet the days before., and I did a 1 hour bike ride during that 3 days. On my second day I got the " brain fog" affectionately called "carb flu" that some people get after restricting carbo hydrates. this is when your glucose stores that feed the brain get low. You can mitigate this by taking a small (not too much or you get sick) amount of medium chain triglycerides. What works really well but is expenseive is to take ketone salts. This will get you out of brain fog in 30 minutes as you are taking in ketones instead of waiting for your body to produce them. I did this 2 days ago. 

I wish I could answer your question, Delede. There is an answer to "Why the Fat?" You heard one side, I hope the other side chimes in. 

I am not targeting ketosis or care if its in my urine or not. just makes it easy for me, personally to cut calories if I keep my carbs very low. I have done low calorie on a standard low fat diet..and lost weight, however I was in constant torment waiting on the next meal...for me it required iron will power. Married with career, this my "my" easy way. different for everyone. 

Thanks a lot I.C.M. What you say is so radically different that I can see why some become defensive, however, I appreciate the new paths of investigation that you are opening up. Have a great day. 

Yugguth, what you say about the nuts is so true! I usually count them out into little baggies and put away the large 'stash' to make sure that i do not over-indulge. Nuts are so very addictive...or is it that I have an addictive personality, LOL. LadyinDenim, I try to weigh all sides of an issue, so I will be happy to hear from the other side. Whereas in the past I just jumped onto (and quickly fell off) whatever fad diet caught my attention, this time I am in it for the long haul. This is why I keep asking questions so that I will be able to make an informed choice. 

From my POV, fats have the highest satiety response. In the macros for LCHF, the fats are a *limit*, not a target. The proteins, on the other hand *are* a target, while the carbs are a limit, as well. 

The liver takes triglycerides and takes the glycerol off of it and turns it to glucose for the brain. Other body processes can use the rest of the fat molecule for energy. I just wanted to say that there is an ANSWER to the philosophical question "Why the Fats?" I only know bits and pieces. If you googled, you might be able to find what the LCHF proponents have to say about it.  

Is that my cue, Lady?? LOL Fat is the only macronutrient that doesn't stimulate insulin levels (Fiber doesn't either, but fiber by itself is not a macronutrient. ENOUGH fiber vs the rest of carbs can off set the other carbs). Insulin is a fat storing hormone. Dietary fat is not needed to reach ketosis, but reaching ketosis opens the door of fat stores so that it is easily accessible. If you don't consume all of your energy needs from the plate, the rest is consumed easily from body fat. It keeps you full, thus leading to less carb/caloric intake. It nourishes the brain & other organs (like skin). 

I should also add that fat helps digest and buffer the insulin effect from lean meat, the same way with fiber in carbs. That's why you find carbs with fiber in nature (although the non fiber ratio was much higher before man started experimenting with wild growing fruit/vegetables), and protein with fat . 

And if any of you are curious as to what has the highest satiety response measured in an experiment, google "the potato hack". It is fascinating and works, and is low fat and can cause starvational ketosis in some individuals...which has nothing to do with ketogenic diet just a point of low calorie which can happen on the potato hack. I read his book fascinating, but impossible to do if you travel all the time.  

Thanks,everyone. So Mskestrela, are you saying that the high-fat component is more to make sure that I do dip too low with my calories (for hunger management and metabolism) and not necessarily have to eat that amount of fat once I keep the carbs and proteins at the approved levels? LadyinDenim, I did not realize that the fat is also converted into glucose, but just by a more complex digestion method. C2B, I get what you say about the natural balance oI f nutrients in food. It is one of the reasons why in my new way of eating I am trying to eliminate the processed stuff as much as possible 

Thanks Yugguth, I will check it out. 

well, I´m not diabetic but I have insulin resistance and a nutricitionist put me on a low carb diet, I can´t say it was LCHF because I didn´t eat lots of fats either, my macros were like 30%fat, 25% carb, 45%protein and Lost 15 pounds in a month, I was so happy, but then I faced a plateau and my carb craving came back and I didn´t controlled myself and went back to bad habits, most of the carbs were coming from veggies, she didn´t banned for me the starchy veggies, but I couldn´t eat more than 1 cup in a day of cooked veggies like brocoli, coliflower, asparragus, and tomatoes, I could have all the lettuce, spinach, cucumber, zucchini that I wanted, and I was eating starchy carbs just for lunch, also she warned me about the nuts, just 10 to 12 almonds per day, or nut or pecans, coconut oil just twice a week, olive oil just for salads and no more than 1tspon per day, so it was literally just drops of olive oil I was adding to my salads in the vinegar. I have not clue about the science, I´m not an expert but it worked for me and is what I´m aiming to, and started with 30 minutes of any activity I wanted 3 dyas a week, after 2 weeks I increased it to 5 days . I lost not only weight but 4 inches from my waist and 5 from my hips. I think I was eating 1200 to 1300 calories but she didn´t want me to count calories, just to eat until I was satisfied but limiting fats, and carbs.  

Yep, that's the crux of it. I just learned that myself, because I was making myself crazy trying to meet the fat ratio. I'm in a Facebook group that has some real knowledgeable folks in it, and I posed the question there.  

Fat is not bad for you - I had to retrain my thought process. Eat avocado, grass fed butter, coconut oil, oilive oil, the skin on chicken, almonds, seeds, full-fat dairy of yogurt, cottage cheese, cheese, milk, etc. Healthy fat is good for your brain and helps us be less hungry. One does not need to eat "abhorred fats" 

It's all about controlling the insulin response. Low insulin in the body calls for body fat burning, high insulin = no fat loss and more hunger. Dietary fat does not cause an insulin response; carbs=a high insulin response and protein about half that of carbs. So keep the carbs very low, the protein moderate and the fat high. You will feel full and satisfied with few overall calories. This also kills the carb cravings; a big benefit! I have tried many diets and the high fat diet is the only one that doesn't involve being hungry all the time. For me it works.  

Try this video for an explanation of why fat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=57431407-0000-2d1d-95f6-94eb2c0a9bae&feature=iv&list=PLkQCEsFtjG1cZae6JceyslVJ7F4uInIkX&src_vid=TMGzxFygSbQ&v=wJhNnbRHCbE 

If you don't like the fat, don't eat it and find another way to lose weight. No one will be sad if you don't do LCHF.  

Do what works for you - in the end you want to do what you can sustain; not what anyone here tries to convince you of doing with graphs, diagrams, lists or chemistry.