10 PAGES
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 next ... last
previous topic · next topic
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 04:55
There is no need what so ever to cut carbs or even to particularly restrict them within your caloric limits.

Obviously try and eat the the healthier ones fruit,veg etc rather than the crap ones sugar, cereals, colas etc

It is one of the biggest myths of our time in weight management and NO SCIENTIFIC STUDY has ever supported it

but people will believe what they want to believe
Lissaloolah

Joined: Jun 13
Posts: 56

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 05:48
Spacey47 is right.start doing that and you will notice the change so much you are likely to fail.
Lissaloolah

Joined: Jun 13
Posts: 56

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 13:19
......when I say notice the change, I mean in how you feel.You may crave the carbs and struggle with it.
peaceandbles...

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 71

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 13:48
Spacey47 wrote:
There is no need what so ever to cut carbs or even to particularly restrict them within your caloric limits.

Obviously try and eat the the healthier ones fruit,veg etc rather than the crap ones sugar, cereals, colas etc

It is one of the biggest myths of our time in weight management and NO SCIENTIFIC STUDY has ever supported it

but people will believe what they want to believe


Spacy47 did you go to the link? The article is about NOT cutting out Carbs and how to eat the healthy ones. I wasn't saying not to eat Carbs for our body needs them well the good ones anyway. This was for those who have decided to cut them out and I wanted them to know the risk of doing so.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 13:56
@peace and b

I'm agreeing with you, just validating your point Smile
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 15:22
peaceandblessings wrote:
Thought those who've been thinking about cutting out carbs should check this link out. I found it very helpful.
http://tinyurl.com/k5jn8do I used tinyurl to shorten the link. Happy ReadingVery Happy


Hi,

I hope you don't mind my posting this for the sake of accuracy.

Quote:
Carbs provide energy that fuels our brain and body. They are an important part of a healthy diet and it’s definitely not a good idea to cut them out completely.


is an inaccurate statement.

First, GLUCOSE - not carbs per se - fuel the brain, but our bodies can make all the glucose it needs via gluconeogenesis.

Second, the body itself can run just fine on no muscle-stored glucose (glycogen), instead running efficiently on ketones from burning stored and dietary fat. Since I've had only around 14 grams of carb today (and about the same the past several days), that's what I'm doing right now and I feel fine. Very Happy

Third, I've been doing LC for about seven years and no low carb authority I'm aware of ever advocated carbs being "cut out completely." First, it's practically impossible to do. Second, since the body can make glucose, it'd be pointless so there's no need to even try. Third, the most severe (barring hospitalization) cut that I know of is to cut to around 20g/daily, but you then gradually increase carb grams until you discover your personal limit. Again, I've done this for about 7 years and the only people I've ever seen claim we totally cut out carbs are people who oppose the diet for some reason, or just don't understand it.

Hope you don't mind my posting but I wanted to point that out in the interest of accuracy. Smile
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 16:18
And it's totally unnecessary to do. Just because you can doesn't mean you should it serves no genuine health purpose. How many societies or cultures are ketogenic?
The ones that are do they live longer, more healthy ?

Ever heard of a ketogenic athlete of re known?


7 years and still not at your target weight sounds like failure to me!
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 18:00
There are essential amino acids (protein). There are essential fats. There is no such thing as an essential carb. The reason some amino acids and some fats are called essential is because the body cannot fabricate them from raw materials. The reason there are no essential carbs is because the body can make all the glucose it needs from raw materials.

As for 'genuine' health purposes, and note that these are not all Atkins type diets with Atkins low carb requirements:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-08-30/low-carb-diet/57444292/1

Quote:
A review of 17 different studies that followed a total of 1,141 obese patients on low-carb eating plans — some were similar to the Atkins diet — found that dieters lost an average of almost 18 pounds in six months to a year.

Overall, participants had improvements in their waist circumference, blood pressure, triglycerides (blood fats), fasting blood sugar, C-reactive protein (another heart disease risk factor) as well as an increase in HDL (good) cholesterol. LDL (bad) cholesterol did not change significantly.



Quote:
"We have passed the time where we would say the Atkins diet is bad for you. That's an outdated position," Foster says. "This is a viable alternative for weight loss."

-Gary Foster, director of the Center for Obesity Research and Education at Temple University in Philadelphia]

If you can eat carbs and lose weight... wonderful!! More power to you!

If you can't then get educated about LC and eat a low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet. Do it to lose weight but the health benefits come within weeks typically.

If someone is telling you that low carb has no science behind it they do not know what they are talking about. If someone believes you are fat because you lack will power or are not smart enough to understand that you should eat less then you owe it to yourself to see what this person, who doesn't know a thing about metabolism or you, is so blindly against.

If someone tells you it is as simple as calories in calories out challenge them to put their money where their mouth is and eat an all donut diet. After all, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. If the food behind the calorie is important then the nutrient value of the calorie must have an impact on the body. Do these CICO people believe that every person is exactly the same? Really? 100% the same? Ever heard of food allergies? Oh, so some food affects some people differently? But ignore all that and eat carbs because some anonymous obnoxious guy on the internet demands that you do and if you can't live by his example you are a failure.

Or. LC works when 'moderation' doesn't.

I lost 75 pounds with low carb and *no* exercise. Do you think I didn't try my dangedest to do that *his* way? Of course I did. Everyone does. It just doesn't work for a lot of us. You don't have to stay fat because you can't do it his way. You don't have to be miserable or slave away in the gym because he says so.

Read Taubes' Why We Get Fat. Read Wheat Belly by Dr. Davis. Read the latest Atkins book or The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living.

Smile

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net/
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 19:15
Well said.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 19:31
BTW, I know you'll likely say this is too low but I just finished dessert and am done eating for the day (barring a glass of water). I am just under 1,100 calories for the day. I ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was full. I wasn't hungry often and it didn't take much to top me off, but I feel great. My calculator says if I keep eating like this I'll weight 157.7 lbs in 5 weeks, which is my target. Wild, huh. I must be deep in that imaginary low carb ketosis groove again.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 20:24
mmoodd69 wrote:
BTW, I know you'll likely say this is too low but I just finished dessert and am done eating for the day (barring a glass of water). I am just under 1,100 calories for the day. I ate when I was hungry and stopped when I was full. I wasn't hungry often and it didn't take much to top me off, but I feel great. My calculator says if I keep eating like this I'll weight 157.7 lbs in 5 weeks, which is my target. Wild, huh. I must be deep in that imaginary low carb ketosis groove again.


lol yes too low for sure!

I keep a spreadsheet on my calories, macros and trailing weigh-ins. I lost ~3.5 pounds eating an average of 2600 calories a day the 4 weeks prior to ramping up my workout to something resembling a workout. During that four week period I was doing a few curls, with a light dumbbell (all I had) and some pushups every other day - it took about 4 minutes start to finish and I didn't break a sweat so not really a workout in any sense of the word.

If your total carbs are under 50g a day, your protein is moderate and your fat is high, experimenting with higher calories is an interesting thing to try.

Since I am ketogenic I can take advantage of the appetite suppression when needed. This past Monday I had my ~700 calorie coffee/CO/HWC in the morning and then didn't eat anything else till around 5:30pm. No problem. I ended the day with ~2200 calories and had a 2.4 pound drop on the scale the next morning. I didn't expect it because the balance of calories was from pork ribs that I BBQ'd (just rub no sauce) - 20 ounces net meat.

Anyway, if you don't have a health issue or take meds of some sort then higher calories will probably smooth out the downward trend. My experience, both my own and helping other people, has been that when you get too low on calories it makes your weight loss slow/stall.

Smile

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net/
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 816

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 02:32
50+% of my calories come from carbs. Low carb diets are in no way superior or attractive to anyone with taste buds.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 816

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 02:34
Spacey47 wrote:


Move more eat less = job done
Science has verified this !


That is all there is to it.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 05:29
"Anyway, if you don't have a health issue or take meds of some sort then higher calories will probably smooth out the downward trend. My experience, both my own and helping other people, has been that when you get too low on calories it makes your weight loss slow/stall."

Thing is, I'm not forcing myself to not eat-I'm just listening to my body and eating when it tells me to. No health issues or meds...in fact, if I could get my blood tested today I'd put my HDL/LDL/VLDS, trigs and everything else up against anybody else's on this board.

Anyway, today I treat myself to my weekly 1/4 cup of steel cut oats.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 06:06
You know what makes me feel the best? That I don't have to live in fear carrying unnecessary body fat ever again.

I do believe the body knows best and we do need some fat, a few pounds worth, especially as we get older. But knowing I haven't bottomed out where I am now (dead on 167 this morning) is a very freeing feeling. If the high 160s was as low as I could get I'd worry. I'd really, really worry because once you're fat, the body NEVER FORGETS that and will naturally gravitate toward being fat again, instead of gravitate toward being thin. And it gets worse the older we get.

Being well into middle age, all I could look forward to - if I was honest with myself - is slowly turning back into a fat guy as I got even older than I already am...my muscles going soft and shrinking as testosterone inevitably drops...skin sagging al over...insulin issues (probably) as my body can no longer efficiently process all the calories I'm now enslaved to and still shovel into my face...my gravity-compressed spine making me even shorter than I already am. It'd make me so depressed that I'd likely lose all control of what I ate because all this - the body's natural wind-down toward death - would all happen no matter what I did to stop it. I'd know I'd inevitably turn back into the fat guy I used to be (maybe topping 200 pounds, which for me would be a horrible first), making all my postings here about my accomplishments meaningless, stupid and vain. Because, once again, I'd be a fat guy.

The aging process cannot be stopped but luckily, with a ketogenic diet and the blood results to back it up, the fat guy will never reappear for me. So I'm happy! I just wish every guy could say that, but they can't.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 11:34
My reply ended up being a huge wall of text so I am going to break it up into multiple posts for readability.

Spacey47 wrote:
Sooner or later EVERY brain fogged low carb idiot


The point, which seems to have shot right past your unibrow, is that there is a difference in the nutrition behind the calorie source. And, of course, you sidestepped the issue of everyone's body being 100% the same which must be true if you are right. But everyone's body is not 100% the same. So you are wrong. Not just wrong but banana republic wrong.

Human metabolism is not a bomb calorimeter.

"NOT being LC doesn't mean you should be ALL C!"

Somehow you grasp this but you cannot grasp that LC is not Zero Carbs. Or that LC carbs are 'healthy' carbs.

No. Everyone *must* eat what *you* think is the right amount of carbs. They *must* continue reducing calories or exercising more. They *must* ignore the article from USA Today that I quoted earlier. They *must* accept your belief that *if* Taubes is fat his arguments *must* be wrong. They *must* ignore that even though I asked you his current height and weight you couldn't answer it. They *must* ignore that you only have ad hominem for argument. They *must* be weak willed and mentally deficient if they cannot be successful with the over simplified 'eat less move more' meme.

Spacey47 wrote:
including healthy carbs which HUMANS evolved to eat.


Humans evolved to eat whatever was available. Agriculture has only been around 10,000 years. Meat and fat were the mainstays before agriculture with Grog eating whatever rare carbs he could find when in season.

There were no Grog scientist creating dwarf wheat with built in pesticide. No fruit cultivated to be as sweet and tasty as possible available year round shipped in nitrogen filled rail cars.

And... humans can create the glucose they need from the meat they eat. They cannot create certain proteins and certain fats. Carb are not a human requirement. So, the fact is, HUMANS evolved to not eat carbs. To use your oft repeated line, just because you can eat carbs does not mean you should eat carbs.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 11:35
Spacey47 wrote:
you see the trouble with lazy people is that they think diet alone is enough, it's about LIFESTYLE not just what you shove down your mouth.


Why is someone lazy to think that?

*You* think that. You have repeatedly said that if you eat less than you use you'll lose weight. Is that not exactly the lazy thinking you are castigating? The 'move more' part of *your* simplistic weight loss equation is about calorie expenditure first and foremost and fitness secondarily.

*And* you keep saying 'healthy' 'well balanced'. Is that not exactly 'what you shove down your mouth'?

So, out of one side of your mouth you are blaming people for being lazy for thinking that 'diet' will solve their problems and out of the other side of your mouth you are telling them that 'diet' is the solution.

But, lest your ego get any bigger, if that is even possible, the entire mainstream dogma is that the mainstream diet will cure what the mainstream diet has caused.

LC, at its heart, is a lifestyle. Like every other diet on the planet, if you approach LC as a diet you'll fail in the end. Just like the eat less move more poop. As soon as you stop doing that you'll start back down the path to weight gain and bad health. With LC you don't have to be super low on carbs forever. Or even for a long time. With vanilla LC you don't have to be particularly low on carbs either. Just low enough to abate the symptoms of carb intolerance. If that works for you that's super! Just like some people can cut back a little on calories and lose weight while other people really need to put a lot of effort into what they are doing. That transcends the way of eating. Because, despite what our buddy here insists, people are individuals with physiology unique to themselves.

Spacey47 wrote:
Exercise regularly


There are few people that are truly sedentary. They mow the lawn, they chase the kids around, they shop, they do this, they do that. But all of *that* movement doesn't count somehow. They *must* do more. Why? Because it increases calorie expenditure first, which is why it is part of your over simplified 'eat less move more' doctrine. There are ancillary health benefits but they are secondary in this facile view of weight loss.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 11:37
Spacey47 wrote:
Please don't quote Gary"fatty" taubes


You like saying that. What exactly is Gary Taubes weight and height? Must we take it on your word, haha, that he is indeed fat? Without regard to that inanity, assume Taubes weighs 1,000 pounds. How does that make his arguments wrong? How does that make his research invalid?

Let me put it in a more clear manner. If Arnold Schwarzenegger was struck by a bus tomorrow and confined to a bed for the rest of his life does that mean that his knowledge of body building is suddenly invalid? Does it mean that his lifelong accumulation of weight lifting education can be dismissed by an internet troll that makes personal attacks on him for being confined to a bed?

The problem with the sort of lazy and vindictive thinking that our friend here displays and encourages is that he wants you to be a shallow minded fool with him. He doesn't want you to consider the arguments being presented. He wants you to stop thinking. Isn't that right?

Let me ask you, person lurking, do you have an overweight friend? If your fat friend makes an intelligent argument about quantum physics do you dismiss the argument because your friend is fat?

Spacey47 wrote:
People like you 2 fools are the reason why so many give up and FAIL at weightloss because you make it sound so complicated and pseudo scientific with
nonsense like ketogenic and all that other rubbish you spout and then you try and push the same nonsense on to everyone else


Wow! *You* insist that everyone on the planet can eat less move more as simple as that. And when that fails to work, according to *you*, it is a personal failure not a failure of *your* approach.

On the other hand, us two fools are saying, no, there is another way. Yet *we* are the ones dooming others to failure??? lol Gosh.

Spacey47 wrote:
7 years and seemingly never what a pair of pathetic examples you are


Hmmm. Do the people that try it your way and fail mean your way is a failure? You are seriously challenged when it comes to logic, no?

Besides that, one of us already told you that he started this for *health* gains first, which he got, and weight loss was not his prime mover. The other one of us, me, already told you a couple of times that I lost 75 pounds with LC without exercise or misery. It looks like us two fools are not bad examples of LC actually.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 11:38
Spacey47 wrote:
Do you look and feel like what you dreamt of looking like?


OMG!!! YES!!!!! HELL YES!!!! More than I could have ever dreamed of!!!

In August of 2011 I was fat as heck!! 265 pounds and gaining. I couldn't stay awake in the early evening. I couldn't tie my shoes without propping a foot up on the bed. I was busting out of my size 3x button up shirts. I was about to buy some size 50 jeans because my 48s were too tight when I took them out of the dryer.

By January of 2012 I was 205 wearing size 36 jeans and Large or XL golf shirts.

No slaving away in the gym. No starving myself. Not really paying attention to what I was doing either other than avoiding carbs. I was eating 2000 to 3000 calories too. Lots of fats. I was logging my food because I was trying to get my fat macro up to 85% every day (I joined a challenge on an Eat Fat Get Thin board).

I sat on my butt the entire time. Much, much more sedentary than most people I think.

According to you and your ilk what I did was impossible. But that is what happens when your view on diet and nutrition is a bumper sticker. You get proven wrong.

And unlike you I am perfectly fine saying that if eat less move more works for you then do it! Wonderful. Unlike you I can think past my own preconceptions. Unlike you I actually read Why We Get Fat and Wheat Belly. Unlike you I was able to open my mind to possibility that the mainstream dogma was wrong for me and millions of other fat people like me. Unlike you I don't demand that everyone conform to my way of thinking.

Spacey47 wrote:
Its simple folks don't let them kid you or buy the latest book


Ever heard of a library?

Spacey47 wrote:
written by authors who you wouldn't want to look like in a million years,


lol man you cannot get past this moronic drivel to save your life can you? I have to repeat it, what is Taubes current height, weight and age? Do you at least have a picture of him shirtless to back up your claims that he is fat?

Troll: Only believe the beautiful people! Only a gorgeous actress knows how to apply makeup (not the skilled team that actually applies her makeup). There is no such thing as a thinking brain - only outward appearances.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 06 Jul 2013, 11:41
Spacey47 wrote:
don't spend your life peeing on stix to see if you are in ketosis,


Wow. The underworld froze over. I agree. Don't bother with those sticks. They really are not all that informative and the ketone bodies they test for leave the body through perspiration and moisture that is expelled in the breath, skin (aside from actual sweat), eyes, what have you. And, more saliently, they do not tell you anything that you cannot surmise empirically. If you aren't getting the results you want, the color of that stick doesn't mean anything. Right? So what if it indicates ketone bodies are present?

In this regard, just like with the mainstream approach, if your results are not in line with reasonable expectations then take a closer look at what you are doing. Become more informed about what you are doing. Ask for help where aggressive anonymous mainstreamers won't shout at you, or call you an idiot, for not doing it their way.

On that note, aggressive people are everywhere - even in the LC community. If you run into an LC version of this guy, just remember that they have person problems that have nothing to do with you. Think about what is being said rather than how it is being said, if possible. Don't be afraid to call them on being over the top when you ask for help. Or just move on because there is someone out there that is willing to be patient and help you if you really are trying and want to be helped with more than a view of life that can fit on a 3" by 12" sticker.

Spacey47 wrote:
forsaking natural healthy food and SOME tasty treat food as well.


Because what he considers healthy must be healthy for every person on the planet. And because someone who doesn't know the first thing about LC tells you that it isn't tasty. Forget that any chef will tell you that FAT is what makes foods tasty. Eat a bag of flour because carbs are tasty.

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net



Forum Search
Advanced forum search



Latest Posts

Cardio question
Would appreciate feedback. I've started doing the treadmill. By the established norms, my MAX HR is 170. For the 'weight burning' I should be in the 60/70% zone. However, in this zone I ...
by NowIunderstand on 30 Aug 14 07:36 PM
Boredom
Try dried fruits or fruit yoghurt.
by solatro on 30 Aug 14 07:32 PM
Vegetable pasta
In order to cut the calories and starches Zucchini or Spaghetti squash is the best way to go... I bought a spiral gadget from Bed Bath and Beyond..it is awesome to make the zucchini spaghetti...and so ...
by Re-energize on 30 Aug 14 03:07 PM
Mix feelings
You fell off the wagon, don't beat yourself up. Just get back on track, go for a walk. Plan your meals, maybe work on a backup plan for your next social event so you'll do better. Soldier on!
by Zenfreek on 30 Aug 14 10:43 AM
advice needed
Make your way of eating and your exercise part of your life, not a diet that will run it's course. Sounds easy but it does take commitment and effort.
by wholefoodnut on 30 Aug 14 08:20 AM