low carbs for 2 weeks

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jamie610811

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 7

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 04:03
After 10 days no weight loss at allSad not happy, people saying far to many carbs so time to fix .........Bloody hell what am I doing .... 2 weeks of very , very low carbs 20g and under . but if it kick starts weight loss fine. And after 2 weeks no more than 100g and no carbs after 2pm ...fingers crossed
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 07:25
if your log is correct, there is no way you are not loosing fat, so first double check that you are logging everything and not underestimating what you eat, secondly watch out the sodium that is a bit high and could trigger water retention and at last check your body fat percentage regularly every two weeks, that gives you a better idea than just weight about how you are actually doing.

jamie610811

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 7

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 08:12
Hi . yes everything logged ,my weight went up or down one lb over the 10 days. I lost 1 inch off my waist and 3/4 inch of chest. I have just read about water retention and will check the sodium in food now. I go to the gym for 2 hrs 4 times a week and the weight stays the same. Really pissed off LOL. As you can see my calories seem good and I eat every 2 hrs. Do you think I should just try and reduce my carbs to 100g/150g ?
JazzyOwl

Joined: May 12
Posts: 61

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 08:50
Your carb intake is way high. Maybe try lower carb foods. I can only tell you what works for me (when I have the discipline to do it). Maybe google and do a little research on carb cycling.
Once you forgot what you are worth......You forgot what you deserve!
musiquette

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 31

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 09:30
Hi, I would recommend looking at the percent carbs per day rather than g's. You seem to have higher and lower calorie days so I think the carbs can move with it. They say a low carb diet is anything under 45% per day but some encourage as low as 5%. I try to stick with 30-35% when I'm behaving and definitely keep carbs to daytime only. I'm only going by what has worked for me in the past, but hope this helps.
“Life is a bowl of cherries. Some cherries are rotten while others are good; its your job to throw out the rotten ones and forget about them while you enjoy eating the ones that are good! There are two kinds of people: those who choose to throw out the good cherries and wallow in all the rotten ones, and those who choose to throw out all the rotten ones and savor all the good ones.”
― C. JoyBell C.
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 11:34
macro composition does not affect fat loss. If the total calories are the same 100% or 0% carbs have no effect on fat loss, they might have a temporary effect on weight loss.
Carb cycling has no scientific basis nor meal timing, eating carbs, proteins or anything else at night or at dawn does not change the effect. That is what countless studies have shown, the rest is just popular myths that people in here love to repeat
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 11:47
paperiniko wrote:
macro composition does not affect fat loss. If the total calories are the same 100% or 0% carbs have no effect on fat loss, they might have a temporary effect on weight loss.
Carb cycling has no scientific basis nor meal timing, eating carbs, proteins or anything else at night or at dawn does not change the effect. That is what countless studies have shown, the rest is just popular myths that people in here love to repeat

Actually, research is much less clear than you imply. In one study, people on an unrestricted high fat diet lost more weight than those on a restricted low fat high carb diet. In the same study, a group consuming a high saturated fat diet lost the most fat of all, though that group did not lose weight. Insulin spikes affect the body's regulation of protein and fat.

The fact is that our bodies need protein to rebuild every day, even when we are being sedentary. When we do not consume enough protein, the body will tear down its own muscle to provide building blocks to maintain itself. Insulin spikes caused by high carb consumption makes this worse, and insulin resistance even worse.

Much of the research that common recommendations are based on is test tube, laboratory, or population study, all of which have major drawbacks in producing valid recommendations for people who are not living in a test tube or lab, and who eat what they feel like eating when they feel the need to eat.

There is very little research that shows why dieters can't lose or can't stay on some diet that ought to work, and what happens to those who succeed some years down the road.
CJT1217

Joined: Sep 11
Posts: 224

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 11:51
It would be nice if their was a tried and true weightloss blueprint for everyone. Jamie, keep at it, staying low carb worked really well for me, helping me lose nearly 60 lbs over a year's time. But also note that if you're working out quite a bit, don't skimp on the protein intake.

Stay the course, stay on point, stay motivated, dedicated, and you won't be stopped. Discipline. Perseverance. Focus. Dig deep and you will be victorious.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 12:03
eKatherine wrote:

Actually, research is much less clear than you imply. In one study, people on an unrestricted high fat diet lost more weight than those on a restricted low fat high carb diet. In the same study, a group consuming a high saturated fat diet lost the most fat of all, though that group did not lose weight. Insulin spikes affect the body's regulation of protein and fat.


Please post links to these studies. I am assuming these are ad libitum/free-living studies, and/or based on self-reported intake. But please share them.

eKatherine wrote:
When we do not consume enough protein, the body will tear down its own muscle to provide building blocks to maintain itself. Insulin spikes caused by high carb consumption makes this worse, and insulin resistance even worse.


Would also be interested to see what you're relying on for this part as well, specifically that "insulin spikes" as a result of carbohydrate consumption exacerbate lean mass loss in a negative nitrogen balance...

Thanks.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 19:59
Link to the first study.

If I find the second I will put it here. Haven't found it yet, but here is a good article on why we need to eat protein daily.
Cthulhu

Joined: Dec 11
Posts: 167

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Posted: 28 Nov 2012, 20:26
Yes Jamie if you are working out at the gym and your measurements are showing fat loss then that is terrific! Myfitnesspal.com asks for measurements with each weigh-in, you might find that more encouraging.

“The last of the human freedoms is to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances.” ~Victor E. Frankl
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 29 Nov 2012, 11:10
eKatherine wrote:
Link to the first study.

If I find the second I will put it here. Haven't found it yet, but here is a good article on why we need to eat protein daily.


Thanks - I appreciate the follow-up and the links. Now on to the issues~

Let's start with your second claim, about the insulin response to CHO consumption exacerbating lean muscle catabolism. Without a source supporting your claim, there's not much to discuss. Nonetheless, I think you've got it backwards - insulin is anti-catabolic.
See, for starters: Mechanism of insulin's anabolic effect on muscle: measurements of muscle protein synthesis and breakdown using aminoacyl-tRNA and other surrogate measures
Quote:
In conclusion, we demonstrated that intra-arterial insulin infusion into healthy human subjects that increased insulin to normal physiological postprandial levels did not significantly increase muscle protein synthesis but significantly suppressed muscle protein breakdown.

Insulin present in "normal physiological postprandial levels" (i.e., your typical post-meal "insulin spike" ) promoted muscle growth by suppressing muscle protein breakdown. Muscle protein synthesis and breakdown are ongoing processes, and you're in a net anabolic state when the rate of synthesis exceeds the rate of breakdown. Insulin promotes muscle growth by inhibiting that breakdown.

Now with respect to the study you cited, it doesn't demonstrate a metabolic advantage to a lower-CHO or higher fat diet. Here are some of the reasons why:

* The most obvious limitation is that is a free-living study and relied upon self-reported data. Right off the bat, neither intake nor energy expenditure was controlled or measured directly. There was a reasonable effort made to standardize calorie deficits, but it was ultimately all estimated.

* This defect is integrally related to your claim that the high-fat subjects "lost more weight" than the high-CHO subjects. Well, yes and no. The subjects on the high-fat diet only lost more weight during what was supposed to be the "weight stable" portion of the trial. And the difference was incredibly small - the greatest "weight loss" was in just one of the low-CHO groups (who also had the highest starting weight, by several kg), who lost less than 1 kg. Remember, this was supposed to be the weight-stable part of the trial, highlighting how intake was not being matched to energy expenditure. What this means is that during that stage of the trial, this group spontaneously took in fewer calories (and/or began moving more) than the others. However, we don't know whether that was due to a reduction in CHO, because...

* The groups were not protein-matched. Fat and CHO were not the only differences between the groups. The low-CHO groups supposedly ate almost twice as much protein as the high-CHO group. This is a huge confound. Not only is the thermic effect of protein much higher than the other macronutrients, leading to greater energy expenditure, but protein is by far the most satiating macronutrient. In a free-living trial, it's no surprise that a diet containing almost twice as much protein would result in less spontaneous eating. Having said that, CHO-restricted diets can be helpful in reducing spontaneous eating, simply because entire categories of calorie-dense, less satiating foods are (literally and figuratively) off the table. If you're not tracking calories closely, this can be an effective strategy for creating a calorie deficit.

* The minute differences in weight loss during the "weight stable" phase disappeared completely during the "weight loss" phase of the study, when the subjects were supposed to be eating at a daily deficit of 1000 calories.
During that stage of the trial, the high-carb group lost an average of 5.3kg. The three low-carb groups lost 5.0, 5.4, and 4.8kg. Very minor differences, and the high-carb group was slightly more successful overall. But not to a meaningful degree. Considering that the high-carb group had the lowest starting weight and lowest starting body fat %, this would if anything be another advantage for the high-CHO condition.

* Body fat was not measured in a reliable way - the study used bioelectric impedence, which as far as I'm concerned makes that result meaningless. DEXA scanning would have been better. Nonetheless, there were no significant differences between the groups. The high-carb group supposedly lost an average of 3.5% body fat, while the three low-carb groups lost 3.5%, 3.6%, and 3.3% during the weight-loss phases. Almost perfectly identical. (Also: because this is a highly unreliable way to measure body fat changes, it's possible that the <1 kg weight loss in the low-CHO group during the weight-stable portion of the diet wasn't fat, but normal water weight loss from restricted CHO).

I think the most we can conclude from this study is what we already knew - restricting CHO can, for some people, be useful in reducing ad libitum calorie intake. If you're counting calories, however, this isn't an issue because you're not eating ad lib in the first place.

Thanks for sharing those links. Always good to have a rational discussion, especially in light of the ridiculous flamewars going on around here lately.
saaywar

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 11

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Posted: 29 Nov 2012, 12:46
You burn an ef load of calories...Try cutting carbs like most people have said on here. Target the fat for the best results. 50 - 100 grams of carbs should do the trick.

Keep it up buddy!
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

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Posted: 29 Nov 2012, 15:16
@Nimm -

Indeed, when researchers set out to "prove" something, often all they prove is that they aren't willing to set up their control groups in a comparable way.

If you enjoy the insulin spike and think it's healthy for you, go for it. I'm not doing that.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 29 Nov 2012, 15:49
eKatherine wrote:
@Nimm -

Indeed, when researchers set out to "prove" something, often all they prove is that they aren't willing to set up their control groups in a comparable way.

If you enjoy the insulin spike and think it's healthy for you, go for it. I'm not doing that.


eKatherine-

I don't think it's "healthy" as much as mostly irrelevant if you're not diabetic or possibly even pre-diabetic. But if you want to choose your food with an eye towards insulin, more power to you. Other than the inconvenience of limiting your choices, I'm not aware of a downside.
Goethe

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 54

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Posted: 01 Dec 2012, 08:30
Hey Jamie, I checked your diet logs, it's a bit difficult to understand how you didn't lose weight in 10 days with all the diet and the exercise you do.

However, not as much as you, but my carb intake is also high, and that has certainly been a factor on not losing as much weight as I wish, however, I can see my measures are quite smaller when I put on a shirt, or my GI, you should check to see if that's not your case also.
I started my weight loss journey seriously on oct 18 of 2012, and so far:
spot74us

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 1

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Posted: 04 Dec 2012, 01:16
No one has mention that maybe the food is not getting broke down and digested properly . That has a huge effect on fat and weight loss. Try Buying a B-Complex vitamin and very good enzyme supplement and see if there is any results for 2 weeks.
ebivr

Joined: Jun 08
Posts: 442

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Posted: 04 Dec 2012, 11:44
If you're not losint weight you might need your thyroid checked? Also a high carb and high sodium diet will make you retain water & thus stall. I think carbs hold 3 or 4 times their weight in water.

Speaking from my own personal experience, a high carb diet does make you lose more muscle than fat and leaves you with saggy excess skin. So I choose to be in ketosis now to protect my muscles and burn the fat.

Also a ketogenic diet will reverse diebetes, lower high blood pressure and clear out / strip plaque from clogged arteries.

A ketogenic diet is anything under 60g of net carbs a day.


"Do what thou wilt shall be the the Law, Love is the whole of the law, Love before will, The meaning of life is to Love"
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Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 04 Dec 2012, 12:47
ebivr wrote:
If you're not losint weight you might need your thyroid checked? Also a high carb and high sodium diet will make you retain water & thus stall. I think carbs hold 3 or 4 times their weight in water.

Speaking from my own personal experience, a high carb diet does make you lose more muscle than fat and leaves you with saggy excess skin. So I choose to be in ketosis now to protect my muscles and burn the fat.

Also a ketogenic diet will reverse diebetes and clear out / strip plaque from clogged arteries.

A ketogenic diet is anything under 60g of net carbs a day.


Water weight will not halt fat loss. High carb diets are actually more muscle sparing than low carb.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 817

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Posted: 04 Dec 2012, 12:51
eKatherine wrote:

If you enjoy the insulin spike and think it's healthy for you, go for it. I'm not doing that.


All meals create a spike. Brown rice causes more of a spike than Ice Cream, Fast Food cheeseburgers, and french fries. Are you now going to say brown rice is unhealthy? It. doesn't. matter. In a healthy body, the spike goes back to base line quickly.

Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.



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