‎"Americans are fat and sick because they eat too much and don't exercise enough." - n

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Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 05:10
FatSecret's implied supposition is that if you eat less and exercise more you will get thin.

‎"Americans are fat and sick because they eat too much and don't exercise enough." The great science writer Gary Taubes demolishes this prevailing theory in thorough detail, replacing it with a simple one. Americans are fat and sick because they eat insulin producing food - potatoes, wheat, rice and sugary drinks. His now standard lecture on YouTube is worth watching. The evidence and corollary theories are fun to see develop. Thin people exercise because they are thin, not vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9079LV4tY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
PeeFat

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 521

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 07:55
Most people these days eat fast food and purchase processed food. While they eat this they also find it cheap and convenient to feed it to their children. It's much easier to throw something into the microwave or open a box and toss it into the oven or toaster. It isn't a childs fault they are fat, the blame is on the person feeding that child a poor diet. IMO any child that ends up getting diabetes because of their weight caused by diet alone, the parents should be charged with child abuse. I'm serious. In fact in some states children are being taken from homes for this reason. Laws need to change. If a child is abused or an asthmatic child ends up in the hospital because a parent is smoking in the home the parents are charged with child abuse. Giving your child diabetes is the same... you are hurting your child. The problem with weight is police and people in charge of making the laws are most likely fat with overweight children themselves and are hesitant to do or say anything. The law must be formed from the highest level of government.
When I was a youngster in school we had gym class 3 times a week. We played outside after school. These days kids go home to their bedroom and eat junk food while they watch tv or play video games and then get called to the dinner table to eat more processed food.
Fast food and processed food contains little to no micro nutrients that can prevent about 80% of cancer. The junk most people eat are high in saturated / trans fat, sugar and simple carbohydrates.

Parents need to stop being lazy and do the right thing. Does it take longer to prepare a healthy meal over throwing crap in the microwave? Yes it does. Plan meals in advance and do some prep work in your spare time. Get off the sofa and take care of your family.

Of course some will take offence to this post.. if so that means you feel some level of guilt and I learnt well on how to lay a guilt trip on others from my mom. It's time for change. It starts with you.
gkcfm95

Joined: May 10
Posts: 448

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 08:41
Amen!

~kelly
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 09:03
Gary Taubes habitually omits and misrepresents the great weight of research that does not support his hypothesis.

Controlled metabolic ward studies - the gold standard - consistently refute his claims. Not a single one has ever shown, for example, that net lipolysis is dependent upon insulin levels, absolute or proportional levels of CHO in the diet, or the glycemic index of a diet.

More to the point, on the subject of exercise and weight loss, Taubes' claim (as with so many of his others) is essentially fighting a strawman. Exercise is not necessary for fat loss, but it can cause it if it contributes in whole or part to an energy deficit. See, e.g.:

Effect of Calorie Restriction with or without Exercise on Body Composition and Fat Distribution
Quote:
Contrary to our hypothesis, our data indicate that when the degree of energy restriction is carefully matched, improvements in metabolic risk factors (body composition and fat distribution) in overweight men and women are dependent on the net energy deficit and that the inclusion of exercise does not contribute any added benefit in terms of changes body composition. Exercise therefore plays an equivalent role to caloric restriction in terms of energy balance; however, it can also improve aerobic fitness, which has other important cardiovascular and metabolic implications.


An uncontrolled study, but with the same results:
Fat loss depends on energy deficit only, independently of the method for weight loss.

See also:
George Bray critique of Good Calories, Bad Calories (pdf)

Quote:
In developing his ideas about calories and obesity in Good Calories, Bad Calories, Taubes argues that obese individuals do not eat more than lean ones do. The data for his belief come from the Diet and Health Report (16) prepared by the National Academy of Sciences. This report said ‘Most studies comparing normal and overweight
people suggest that those who are overweight eat fewer calories than those of normal weight’. Further on, the author says ‘Even if it could be established that all obese individuals eat more than do the lean – which they don’t – that only tells us that eating more is associated with being obese’. As a member of the committee drafting the Diet and Health Report, I was responsible for writing this section. The data used in this report were based on food-intake records and reflected the information of the day. Even then, however, there was a paradox. Measurements of energy expenditure using oxygen consumption showed a nearly linear increase in energy expenditure as body weight
increased. This meant that heavier people were expending more energy than were leaner ones. How did the overweight people keep up their higher energy expenditure if they did not ingest more food?

We now know that the data used in the Diet and Health Report were wrong and that obese people eat more food energy than do lean ones. The answer to this apparent paradox came from a new technique for measuring total daily energy expenditure (17).


Garbage in, garbage out.
Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 10:01
I guess my effortless weight loss of 33 pounds in 2 months after quitting any and all wheat products is just an odd coincidence. And the testimony of thousands of Dr Davis' no-wheat patients on his blog is nonsense.
Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 10:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ&feature=relmfu

from the prior and current heads of American Society of Bariatric Physicians
These are the doctors who make a living by doing Gastric Bypass Surgery! They are the chief promoters of low-carb diets.
Ingria

Joined: Oct 11
Posts: 542

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 11:36
Mlasell wrote:
I guess my effortless weight loss of 33 pounds in 2 months after quitting any and all wheat products is just an odd coincidence. And the testimony of thousands of Dr Davis' no-wheat patients on his blog is nonsense.


Yes, your weight loss is a coincedence to some degree. You will not keep it off if this is your only strategy. Congratulations on your weight loss and your healthy life style. I do not eat wheat because I am gluten intolerant but I can assure you that i did not lose much weight just because of that. Though i do feel much better without it, and who knows how heavy I would have been if i continued eating it. With a large percentage of population intolerant to wheat proteins (without even knowing it), and another huge percent of population being insulin resistant, it is no wonder that people who eliminate wheat feel better and lose weight. Also practically 100% percent of food containing wheat is highly processed, manufactured junk food, that should be eliminated any way. But please, do not try to tell people that this will solve all their problems.

Nimm and PeeFat, excellent posts (as always).
~~~~~~~~~~
The first thing you lose on a diet is your sense of humor. ~ Author Unknown
It doesn’t matter what diet you follow… What matters is what makes you follow your diet. ~ Tom Venuto
NCNOLE

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 1,218

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 12:32
I agree Ingria. Wheat alone is not responsible for making you overweight. Removing wheat likely helped with weight loss as you were not consuming as much snack type foods or processed foods. Wheat is found in many things, so if you cut it out then you are cutting out a lot of things that you probably shouldn't be eating if you are trying to lose weight. You also likely reduced your total caloric intake. Both of those things would probably help anyone lose weight - with or without the wheat.
Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 13:30
From the PDF that "refutes" Taubes. I had to laugh because it illustrates the attitude of the doctors who believe what they believe and that Taubes and every other groundbreaker has run into challenging set beliefs. Gerson was viciously attacked when he first suggested that smoking was bad for you. "If the evidence doesn't agree with our established beliefs, then the evidence must be wrong!"
"One summer I admitted a group of four overweight teenagers
to our clinical research unit at the Harbor UCLA
Medical Center and put them on a 1000-cal diet under
direct observation. As expected, all of the girls lost weight
and were delighted with the result. When they left at the
end of the summer, one of the girls, who lived only a short
distance from the hospital, wanted to come back to see us
so she could continue to lose weight. We instructed her on
how to keep a food diary.When she returned 2 weeks later,
she had gained a few pounds. She showed us her diary,
which was very neatly and carefully kept. The average daily
food intake was about 300–400 kcal d-1. As she had lost
weight eating 1000 kcal d-1 while directly observed in the
hospital, we were sceptical of the accuracy of her outpatient
recording. We instructed her again on keeping food
records. She returned after another 2 weeks, having gained
even more weight and with records still showing she only
ate 300 kcal d-1 or so. There was an obvious discrepancy,
reflecting the difficulty of keeping reliable records. It was
thus clear that this girl was either kidding herself or trying
to kid us about how much she was eating."
Ingria

Joined: Oct 11
Posts: 542

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 14:09
I am sorry but I have to play the devil's advocate, now that you added smoking into the mixture. Smoking is very good for weight loss, nicotine prevents Parkinson and improves memory, and in the absense of antibiotics in old days it also helped to prevent many of bacterial lung infections. Having said all that, yes it is true that it increases the risk of lung cancer, and it is better not to smoke. Same with wheat - no it is not healthy, especially in large quantities and for those individuals who are sensitive to wheat proteins but no it does not cause obesity in healthy active individuals just by itself. We already heard same rethorics about meat, fats, HFCS and practically any food group. As a person who eats as wheat/gluten free as possible without becoming obsessive, and who also eliminated most of the grains from the diet to be on the safe side and who has been eating this way for much more than a decade, I can testify that eliminating wheat does not equal weight loss. That is the point where I totally disagree with you. And i don't need the quote from PDF, i have my own experience to prove it.
~~~~~~~~~~
The first thing you lose on a diet is your sense of humor. ~ Author Unknown
It doesn’t matter what diet you follow… What matters is what makes you follow your diet. ~ Tom Venuto
erika2633

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 806

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 14:24
Mlasell wrote:
‎"Americans are fat and sick because they eat too much and don't exercise enough." The great science writer Gary Taubes demolishes this prevailing theory in thorough detail, replacing it with a simple one. Americans are fat and sick because they eat insulin producing food - potatoes, wheat, rice and sugary drinks.


I lost 25 pounds last year by monitoring my calorie intake and exercising more. I have been maintaining this weight loss for 8 months and I am still eating these demonic 'insulin producing foods'...

I sure wish people would stop making suppositions about what will and will not work for every single person on the planet. Everyone is different and needs to find their own way to lose weight/get healthy/STAY healthy. It's easy to preach about what the healthiest lifestyle is, but the bottom line is that the unhealthiest people need to find something that is manageable and sustainable for a healthy life, and completely excluding things from their diet might not work for them.

And now this is my own little soapbox rant, but anyone who says that exercise/activity is not an important part of a healthy life must be more concerned only with being "thin" and not healthy/fit.


Someone who is busier than you is working out right now.
There will come a day when you can no longer do this. Today is not that day.
Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 14:36
I don't mean to suggest that exercise is not a good idea. It is great and it makes you feel really good. But the equation is backwards. I started exercising more after quitting the carbs. Why? My joint pain and fatigue went away.
erika2633

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 806

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 14:50
The equation might be backwards for you, but that doesn't mean it's backwards for everyone.

Quitting carbs might have been the magic 'aha' moment for you, but isn't the ticket for everyone.


Someone who is busier than you is working out right now.
There will come a day when you can no longer do this. Today is not that day.
Ingria

Joined: Oct 11
Posts: 542

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 14:53
Mlasell wrote:
I don't mean to suggest that exercise is not a good idea. It is great and it makes you feel really good. But the equation is backwards. I started exercising more after quitting the carbs. Why? My joint pain and fatigue went away.


Excuse me, what do you mean you eliminated carbs? I just looked at your diet calendar. You should not make statements like that, unless you can prove them. You eliminated wheat, not carbs. You are eating more carbs than a lot of people on FS. Yes, if you were intolerant to wheat, and it appears that you were based on the symptoms you describe, you can benefit from cutting it off your diet. But let us not mix wheat, carbs, food intolerances and weight loss together and advocate wheat free diet as a solution for general population. It is not that easy to maintain over a long period of time.
~~~~~~~~~~
The first thing you lose on a diet is your sense of humor. ~ Author Unknown
It doesn’t matter what diet you follow… What matters is what makes you follow your diet. ~ Tom Venuto
Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 16:44
I started at 206 pounds on August 1, 2012, quit wheat and sugar and am at 174. The diet calendar is not very typical. I backslide from time to time. But progress has been steady and my outlook and understanding is progressing from no-wheat to low carbs in general. I don't know why low carbs would be so difficult to sustain in the long run, since the less one has them, the lower one's appetite becomes. What I do know is that in my company of 450 people, despite a serious health campaign, diet advice from registered dieticians, doctors, exercise program etc, weight loss like mine is rare, so I think I am onto something.
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 17:09
Mlasell wrote:
From the PDF that "refutes" Taubes. I had to laugh because it illustrates the attitude of the doctors who believe what they believe and that Taubes and every other groundbreaker has run into challenging set beliefs. "


interesting argument, that could be actually used against Taube's theories which are largely unsupported by controlled studies and misleading, but of course as usual in these cases, whenever there is a lack of arguments, a good conspiracy theory can become handy.

Mlasell

Joined: Nov 12
Posts: 40

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 17:40
erika2633 wrote:
The equation might be backwards for you, but that doesn't mean it's backwards for everyone.

Quitting carbs might have been the magic 'aha' moment for you, but isn't the ticket for everyone.


I should point out that I am 59 years old. Weight loss advice from a 20s-something nearly anorexic marathoner seems silly. What are you even doing here? At your age I could have drunk a six pack of beer a day with no ill effects.
fatoldlady

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 296

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 18:28
I don't know if you meant to come across as rude as you did but for what its worth I'm 55 and I agree with Erika. Some people, when they find what works for them, figure that it is the final word in weight loss. One thing I have learned from reading the forum posts is that there is many many different plans that work and the trick is finding the one that works for your metabolism and life style. I like a good heated discussion as much as the next person but I don't like it when it becomes rude and disrespectful.
HCB

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 218

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 18:41
Sorry to butt in on this discussion - but I also agree with fatoldlady and Erika2633 when they state no one plan works for everyone, and being disagreeable and insulting is not a respecful way to discuss your point. I also am 57 years old and lose weight through exercise and calorie control - and I eat carbs through fruit, vegetables and dairy.
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you will find an excuse.
erika2633

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 806

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Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 19:08
Mlasell wrote:
erika2633 wrote:
The equation might be backwards for you, but that doesn't mean it's backwards for everyone.

Quitting carbs might have been the magic 'aha' moment for you, but isn't the ticket for everyone.


I should point out that I am 59 years old. Weight loss advice from a 20s-something nearly anorexic marathoner seems silly. What are you even doing here? At your age I could have drunk a six pack of beer a day with no ill effects.


Since we're 'pointing out' things, I might as well point out that I never offered you any weight loss advice, so what exactly is your problem? I stated that there is no 'magic bullet' that will work exactly the same for every person. I am 27 years old and I am not the youngest person here on FS by a long shot, and I try to help/encourage people as often as possible, regardless of their age/gender/diet/weight. I am also in no way a "nearly anorexic marathoner" - in fact, I laughed out loud at the very thought of it. But thanks so much for making ridiculous assumptions about me after looking at my profile for 2 seconds. I would think you, at 59 years of age, would know better than that by now.

I can only take your contemptuous rudeness as a sign that cutting out carbs has not only helped you lose weight, but your manners as well.


Someone who is busier than you is working out right now.
There will come a day when you can no longer do this. Today is not that day.



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