decreasing carb intake

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pam-u-la

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 298

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 07:47
Just need a little advice here. I have noticed lately that my diet has swung back into the heavy carbs again. Currently I am trying to eat vegan style, but everything seems to be so high in carbs. How does one get a lower count/reading on this.
Any ideas, suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Confused Confused Question Question
Marlboro Man

Joined: Sep 10
Posts: 418

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 08:16
What's the problem with your diet being rich in carbs. as long as you are able to fulfill your body's protein and fat needs while remaining in a deficit you can eat a high carb diet and lose fat. weight loss is governed by calorie balance.
“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.”
—Aristotle
"It's not a diet, it's not exercise, it's a lifestyle."
-Unknown
pam-u-la

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 298

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 09:54
Marlboro Man.. then what is all this hype about carbs then? I understand that not all carbs are created equal.. can you explain.. I'm not dumb but just a bit confused. Thanks
yduj57

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 48

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 09:55
Marlboro Man, that might be true for you, but for some of us, it is not the case. My body will not lose weight on a diet rich in carbs. If I replace most of those carbs with lots of fat and some additional protein, then the weight starts to come off. It is not just about calorie balance. It is also about the effects of insulin.

Pam, not sure what to say. I just saw on the Atkins site, that they recommend if you are eating vegan that you need to eat at least 40g net carbs. You might want to check the site to see if there are specific recommendations for Vegan diets. There was a link that I did not click on. Good luck! I hope you can work it out.
A bad moment does not have to be a bad day, bad week, or a sign that you can't do this. It is a moment. Just that. Pause and go back to the person who really wants to be healthier and happier.
LaraStar

Joined: May 11
Posts: 212

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 11:18
Low carb vegan is difficult as veggies naturally contain carbs. High protein vegan foods are nuts, nut butters (high fat) or tofu, soy milk, tempeh etc. Veggies growing above ground usually have less carbs than potatoes, carrots, parnsips.
Lower carb veggies have a higher water content and won't fill you up for long but it helps to add healthy fats to all meals so they take longer to digest.
I once had a vegan friend who only ate fruits and vegetables. He always carried cucumber and carrots sticks because he was hungry all the time. I think adding seeds and nuts would have been better.

"Think you can, think you can't; either way, you'll be right."-Henry Ford
gkcfm95

Joined: May 10
Posts: 448

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 12:05
I think it depends on what your definition of high & low carb is. How low are you trying to go?
Looking at your diet calendar you're biggest offenders are bread, cereal & potatoes. Can you swap these for something lower in carbs?

~kelly
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 17:22
insulin has no effect on fat loss or gain, calorie deficit has. The fact that low carb diets might move the scale faster at start is only due to the glycogen effect, once that ends there is no difference in fat loss between a low carb and low fat diet, if they have the same deficit.
blpou

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 2

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 18:42
I am reading these posts and I am more confused than ever! I just started seeing a dietitian and was told to watch my carb count to get my sugars in order with a loss weight to get my diabetes into the right numbers.. I have never had to diet in all of 45 years until a long illness and lots of prednisone has left me at a weight that is so uncomfortable for me.. I have many residual problems but with medication they are finally all under control so now I need to work on the weight to control my high blood and cholesterol problems and maybe not have to take medication at all..
yduj57

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 48

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 19:35
Blpou, I went through a bout with prendisone this winter, and it can do a number on your whole body. My blood sugar was starting to go up, after never being a problem. After eliminating all refined carbs; sugars, white flour, rice, bread, cereals,....my cholesterol finally started to move in the right direction; triglycerides way, way down, HDL finally moving up, and my blood sugar was back to absolutely normal. This took about two months. My doctor is no longer asking me to take a statin drug. And the pre-diabetes diagnosis that I had at the tail end of the the prendisone is gone.
I suggest a book by Gary Taubes, "Why We Get Fat, and What to Do About it". My local library had it, but they also have it at Amazon.

Good luck, and I hope that you can see some changes in the right direction.
A bad moment does not have to be a bad day, bad week, or a sign that you can't do this. It is a moment. Just that. Pause and go back to the person who really wants to be healthier and happier.
yduj57

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 48

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 19:40
paperiniko, you are not correct. For anyone who is insulin resistant, then insulin will inhibit your ability to lose weight unless you can get the insulin response under control. The only truly effective way to do that is to inhibit carb intake. I am eating the same calorie level as before, but I am losing weight faster. It took me 3 months to lose the weight I have lost in 6 weeks by following low carb versus low calorie. You don't have to believe me. I honestly don't care. I know from first hand experience, that this is the case. And I have done extensive reading on the subject. Much of the nutritional information I thought was accurate for the last 30 to 40 years turns out to have been misinformation for my current body. Your body may work differently than mine does now. Mine used to respond better to the low calorie, low fat approach. It doesn't anymore.
A bad moment does not have to be a bad day, bad week, or a sign that you can't do this. It is a moment. Just that. Pause and go back to the person who really wants to be healthier and happier.
suzehouse

Joined: May 12
Posts: 3

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 19:47
There is a pie shape on your enter foods pages, if you keep your carbs at 50% fats at 30% and proteins at 20% you all should see results.
Saved through him by grace...........
blpou

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 2

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 20:09
what do you consider a low carb count? do you go by each meal or an overall of the whole day?
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 16 Jul 2012, 21:23
yduj57 wrote:
paperiniko, you are not correct. For anyone who is insulin resistant, then insulin will inhibit your ability to lose weight unless you can get the insulin response under control.


Carbohydrate will not prevent body fat loss during energy restriction, even among the insulin resistant.

See, e.g.:
Low-Fat Versus Low-Carbohydrate Weight Reduction Diets: Effects on Weight Loss, Insulin Resistance, and Cardiovascular Risk: A Randomized Control Trial
Quote:
Significant weight loss occurred in both groups (P < 0.01), with no difference between groups (P = 0.40). Peripheral glucose uptake increased, but there was no difference between groups (P = 0.2Cool, and suppression of endogenous glucose production was also similar between groups. . . .
This study demonstrates comparable effects on insulin resistance of low-fat and low-carbohydrate diets independent of macronutrient content.


Reduced Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load Diets Do Not Increase the Effects of Energy Restriction on Weight Loss and Insulin Sensitivity in Obese Men and Women
Quote:
Obese subjects (n = 29) were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 diets providing 3138 kJ less than estimated energy needs: high glycemic index (HGI), low glycemic index (LGI), or high fat (HF). For the first 12 wk, all food was provided to subjects (feeding phase). Subjects (n = 22) were instructed to follow the assigned diet for 24 additional weeks (free-living phase). Total body weight was obtained and body composition was assessed by skinfold measurements. Insulin sensitivity was assessed by the homeostasis model (HOMA). At 12 wk, weight changes from baseline were significant in all groups but not different among groups (–9.3 ± 1.3 kg for the HGI diet, −9.9 ± 1.4 kg for the LGI diet, and –8.4 ± 1.5 kg for the HF diet). All groups improved in insulin sensitivity at the end of the feeding phase of the study. During the free-living phase, all groups maintained their initial weight loss and their improved insulin sensitivity. Weight loss and improved insulin sensitivity scores were independent of diet composition. In summary, lowering the glycemic load and glycemic index of weight reduction diets does not provide any added benefit to energy restriction in promoting weight loss in obese subjects.


Differences in glycaemic status do not predict weight loss in response to hypocaloric diets in obese patients
Quote:
Ability to lose weight on a hypocaloric diet over a 3-month time period does not vary in obese patients as a function of glycaemic status.


Having said that, even though most of the studies on the subject have found no advantage to a reduced-CHO diet for those with insulin resistance, at least one has:
Insulin sensitivity determines the effectiveness of dietary macronutrient composition on weight loss in obese women.
Quote:
Insulin-sensitive women on the HC/LF diet lost 13.5 +/- 1.2% (p < 0.001) of their initial BW, whereas those on the LC/HF diet lost 6.8 +/- 1.2% (p < 0.001; p < 0.002 between the groups). In contrast, among the insulin-resistant women, those on the LC/HF diet lost 13.4 +/- 1.3% (p < 0.001) of their initial BW as compared with 8.5 +/- 1.4% (p < 0.001) lost by those on the HC/LF diet (p < 0.04 between two groups). These differences could not be explained by changes in resting metabolic rate, activity, or intake. Overall, changes in Si were associated with the degree of weight loss (r = -0.57, p < 0.05).
(Keep in mind the reduced-CHO condition in this study still meant 40% of daily energy from carbohydrate)

Dietary CHO will not prevent fat loss during an energy deficit, even among the insulin resistant. However, low CHO may be a more effective strategy for some people in that group. If an insulin resistant person can tolerate and sustain a low-CHO diet, some trial and error wouldn't hurt.
Heidijoy

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 77

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 02:14
First, Nimm is awesome because he always backs up his comments with great research.

Second, if insulin resistance and/or high blood sugar is an issue for you, the best thing you can do for your body is to avoid carbohydrate spikes (I know this from two closely monitored rounds of gestational diabetes in which I tested my blood sugar 8x daily and ate a very carb-controlled diet to prevent health problems for myself and my baby).

Imagine your total carbohydrate goal (which could be 100-200g, for example), as a "budget" for the day. (Some low-carb diets advocate 20-40 total g per day, I happen to stick to a low-cal diet of 1400-1600 kcal/day and so 100-200g is usually my total.)

You should aim to spend that carbohydrate budget not on one huge pasta meal at dinner, but rather in small chunks throughout the day, such as 40g each at breakfast, lunch and dinner, and some small 20-30 g snacks. This allows your body to process sugars slowly, avoiding the spike/crash of one big carbohydrate bomb.

Also, by combining carbs with protein and fat, you will increase satiety, which helps you avoid binges and feel less hungry. I try to make breakfast protein (plain Greek yogurt or cottage cheese or an egg) + 15 g carb serving (one piece of whole wheat toast, one English muffin, half a bagel) + whole fruit (which also has carbs, but far less than the huge glass of juice I used to drink in the mornings).

I know Adkins followers have seen weight loss results and while I don't want to discount them, I am concerned about my micronutrients (vitamins) and so I would rather eat low cal (which allows me all the lean protein and whole fruits and veggies I want) than low carb. I am also concerned about adopting a diet I can eat my whole life, not just tolerate for the sake of weight loss. So if you want to cut carbs, consider starting first with refined carbs and keep eating whole grains., and emphasize eating small amounts at any one time.
I am not losing weight. I am gaining health. Since April 24, 2012:
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 02:54
Insulin resistance and its effect on obesity has become sort of a myth. The problem is that a lot of diet gurus, fitness "experts" and most of all low carb diets industry lobbyists have knowingly or not knowingly exchanged correlation with causation.
Insuline levels are indeed higher than normal in people that overeat and are obese (and often diabetic), but it is not the high insuline level that cause obesity but only the excess caloric intake as Nimm has clearly shown with ample scientific support as usual.
Macro splits has no effect on fat loss as shown by all serious studies, it can have a short term effect on weight loss due to the water weight that is lost with low carb diets, but that is about it
kwebb5891

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 87

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 09:42
I am in the same boat as Heidijoy, I don’t restrict one group but count calories instead. I have had plenty of friends that try Atkins, but haven't had one that could sustain it. After a short while they are gaining back whatever short-term weight loss that they have achieved. I work towards a calorie deficit, and people are amazed because I eat all day and lost almost 30 pounds in about 6 months. That includes between 100 - 200g of carbs everyday, but instead of refined and processed I aim for whole grain and high fiber. It is not super fast but for me it was about making long term lifestyle changes that I can continue and that don't feel like a burden. . . . . . because truly I am a carb-oholic!!!
Habit is habit and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but coaxed downstairs a step at a time. - Mark Twain

JessWhatINee...

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 273

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 09:48
I too would like to thank Nimm for providing information and relevant scientific studies to back it up, rather than just spouting off stuff from reading self-help diet books/blogs.
rudawg7890

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 49

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 11:43
+1 on Jess's comment.
I believe it all boils down to what works for you. Counting calories alone never worked for me. Weight Watchers never worked for me. Started low carb, and the weight started falling off immediately. Switched to the Primal Blueprint, and not only did the weightloss continue, but I was loosing inches and gaining muscle easily.
I believe in the ways of The Primal Blueprint, and it works for me.

Pam, I suspect this thread hasn't been much help to you at all!
dartguy

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 4

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 11:55
Once again Atkins takes a hit. If you do Atkins the CORRECT way, you will lose weight and get many health benefits as well which will show in your blood test results. There is science behind Atkins, and yes Atkins when done correctly still makes you accountable for calories. If you're interested in carbs go to the Atkins website and read up and then make a decision based on how your body reacts. God didn't create a simple human body - it is complex and none of us are identical based on how we live. Educate yourself and then decide for yourself what you can do and find out if it works. For me it is Atkins and I take a multivitamin to try and make sure other nutrients, minerals are kept up. It truly is your choice.
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CJT1217

Joined: Sep 11
Posts: 224

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Posted: 17 Jul 2012, 12:00
I don't count calories, I count macronutrients. A deficit in carbs worked for me in losing weight when I was imobile thanks to a knee injury. Going down from 225 to 205 in under 2 months on diet alone (high protein, low carb) was proof enough for me to know what works for me. Now that cardio is back in the picture in full effect coupled with resistance training, I've never been in better shape. As far as your actual question, Pam-u-la, try doing some research on the carb counts of fruits and veggies and make your decisions from there to decrease your carb count. I'd definitely avoid corn, carrots, and bananas as they are up there as the most packed full of sugar.

Stay the course, stay on point, stay motivated, dedicated, and you won't be stopped. Discipline. Perseverance. Focus. Dig deep and you will be victorious.



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