Dukan too high in Carbs?

previous topic · next topic
viennesish

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 9

      quote  
Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 02:26
I have been on Atkins for a while with good results but left with a few stubborn kgs hard to get rid off.
I have been on 20-25 Net Carbs, mainly from vegetables, and decided to give Dukan a try, as Low Carb seems to be the way to go for me.
So I started the day with the classic Oat Bran pancake (1 egg, 2 Tbsp low-fat cream cheese and 2 Tbsp Oat Bran). So far so good (quite good actually).
But when typing my food into Fatsecret.com I got shocked. The two mandatory spoons of oatbran apparently have 11g Net carbs?! And the Low-Fat Yoghurt you can eat loads of also adds up to the carb count.
I somehow dont get the point of depriving myself of all vegetables but then eating a higher amount of Net carbs than on Atkins with bran and yoghurts? Around 40 Net Carbs a day unless I completely skip the yoghurt even though it is allowed.
Anyone did the switch from Atkins and has some advise? Does Dukan work (better) for you? Thanks!
Lowcarbing my way through first Atkins and now Dukan, getting closer and closer to my target weight. Smile
11.11.2011 - 66.9kg - Started "New Atkins New You"
31.01.2012 - 63kg
12.03.2012 - 62.7kg - Switched to "Dukan Diet"
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

      quote  
Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 07:45
maybe the problem is that you do not eat enough carbs not the other way around.
It might help to vary diet composition and calories intake to speed up metabolism. Carbs calories, especially those coming from fruit, veggies and whole grains, are no worse than protein's unless one has some type of intolerance to specific foods.
Ioana13

Joined: Aug 09
Posts: 8

      quote  
Posted: 16 Mar 2012, 14:33
During the Dukan Attack there are really no carbs or fat. You should use only one spoonful of oat bran. "Low fat" should be replaced by "Fat free" everywhere. Eggs are fine but egg whites are better. You must drink at least 1.5L of sodium free water. No salt, if you can...
Everyone loses weight on Dukan Attack if they follow it.
Please, buy the book and don't play it by ear...
EnriqueVA

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 3

      quote  
Posted: 05 Apr 2012, 19:30
Carbs require insulin,insulin stops lipolysis. Carbs from fruit, veggies and whole grains are better but in excess they will stop fat oxidization. My priority in nutrients start with fiber as the best, then protein, followed by fat, and the last/worst is carbs. Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs do, bc carbs stop fat oxidization.

That's why the most successfull diets include low carb combinations, increasing your metabolism, and burning more calories than you eat per day. I've been consistently losing weight since I started this in January without paying for any diet advice, Google is my friend.

I'm still playing with lower carbs and more exercise to lose the last few pounds I need to lose. After that I will continue to eat the same nutrient breakdown, and always keep carbs as low as possible.
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

      quote  
Posted: 06 Apr 2012, 05:44
I do not agree and I believe that there is no scientific backing for this claim, No major and seriously designed study has ever shown that calories from carbs are worse than calories from proteins or fats for the general "healthy" population. Short of serious hormonal imbalances (that affect a very small portion of the population),the macro splits have no relevant effect on the fat loss effectiveness only calories deficit has.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

      quote  
Posted: 06 Apr 2012, 06:21
EnriqueVA wrote:
Carbs require insulin,insulin stops lipolysis. Carbs from fruit, veggies and whole grains are better but in excess they will stop fat oxidization. My priority in nutrients start with fiber as the best, then protein, followed by fat, and the last/worst is carbs. Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs do, bc carbs stop fat oxidization.


While it's true that insulin does inhibit lipolysis, it's still overall energy balance that determines mass gain or loss. It doesn't much matter if you're burning fat instead of sugar, if you're replacing dietary sugar with dietary fat. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Insulin - an Undeserved Bad Reputation

See also: Comparison of Weight-Loss Diets with Different Compositions of Fat, Protein, and Carbohydrates

Quote:
The principal finding is that the diets were equally successful in promoting clinically meaningful weight loss and the maintenance of weight loss over the course of 2 years. Satiety, hunger, satisfaction with the diet, and attendance at group sessions were similar for all diets. The diets improved lipid risk factors and fasting insulin levels in the directions that would be expected on the basis of macronutrient content.
Ioana13

Joined: Aug 09
Posts: 8

      quote  
Posted: 08 Apr 2012, 19:04
paperiniko wrote:
maybe the problem is that you do not eat enough carbs not the other way around.
It might help to vary diet composition and calories intake to speed up metabolism. Carbs calories, especially those coming from fruit, veggies and whole grains, are no worse than protein's unless one has some type of intolerance to specific foods.


There are virtually no carbs allowed during Dukan Attack and very few during Dukan Cruise - mostly low-starch, low-fructose vegetables.
I agree that eventually, one will go back to eating the good carbs - during the Consolidation and Stabilization phases of Dukan. The original post was posing a question about Dukan: are there perhaps too many grams of carbs alloed in Dukan (presumably Attack)? The answer is simply "no". Anyone who says otherwise needs to read the book to convince themselves.
paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

      quote  
Posted: 08 Apr 2012, 23:02
Ioana13 wrote:
paperiniko wrote:
maybe the problem is that you do not eat enough carbs not the other way around.
It might help to vary diet composition and calories intake to speed up metabolism. Carbs calories, especially those coming from fruit, veggies and whole grains, are no worse than protein's unless one has some type of intolerance to specific foods.


There are virtually no carbs allowed during Dukan Attack and very few during Dukan Cruise - mostly low-starch, low-fructose vegetables.
I agree that eventually, one will go back to eating the good carbs - during the Consolidation and Stabilization phases of Dukan. The original post was posing a question about Dukan: are there perhaps too many grams of carbs alloed in Dukan (presumably Attack)? The answer is simply "no". Anyone who says otherwise needs to read the book to convince themselves.


yes I did understand that, although I will admit that I am not familiar with the Dukan diet other than knowing it is low-carb.
I was just arguing that if that does not produce the desired effects it might be that the low-carbs approach does not work at all in this case and it might be helpful to change approach to kick off the fat loss.
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 676

      quote  
Posted: 09 Apr 2012, 08:03
Dukan is different than Atkins
I think viennesich if you want to do it you just have to buy into its principles and let Atkins go.
I do the Atkins diet but I have read about Dukan
And yes plenty of carbs in the attack phase in the form of oat and low fat/no fat dairy
But the diet also cuts down on fat and calories drastic

I don't know if the way to lose those last few ponds is to go on a diet that is unrealistic for you.
If you want to maintain weightloss it may be better to try to work with the food choices that you like or trust
For me this will always be high fat and low carb (pretty non Dukan really)
viennesish

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 9

      quote  
Posted: 11 Apr 2012, 05:24
Thanks everyone for your input!
I have sticked to Dukan and it is going quite well. Smile

Also I enjoy eating Yoghurt and the fact that I don't have to write all my food down anymore.

Ioana13 just to clarify, I have bought the books and done my research before starting Dukan. It sounds like there are literally no carbs involved.
However fatsecret.com allows you to monitor the exact Net Carbs you are consuming, so there are no assumptions here, just facts.
I have sticked to the rules of first Atkins and then Dukan "by the book".
The total amount of Net Carbs from small amounts of oatbran and low/no-fat dairy on Protein only days (e.g. Attack) is simply higher than the Net Carbs I have consumed with the vegetables and fat dairy on Atkins.

But the combination of low carb and drastic reduction of fat and therefore calories compared to Atkins has still done the trick for me. All the best to all the Atkineers and Dukanians!
Lowcarbing my way through first Atkins and now Dukan, getting closer and closer to my target weight. Smile
11.11.2011 - 66.9kg - Started "New Atkins New You"
31.01.2012 - 63kg
12.03.2012 - 62.7kg - Switched to "Dukan Diet"
lwhite1203

Joined: Jun 15
Posts: 1

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jun 2015, 21:10
I did Dukan, strictly! Never cheated once. The day that we (husband too) hit 6 months, I was down 51 pounds and he was down 53. STICK WITH IT!

I started a baking business and put all but 20 pounds back on. I started back 5 days ago and am down 3.7 pounds.

howzat4u

Joined: Jan 15
Posts: 614

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jun 2015, 21:40
lwhite1203 wrote:
I did Dukan, strictly! Never cheated once. The day that we (husband too) hit 6 months, I was down 51 pounds and he was down 53. STICK WITH IT!

I started a baking business and put all but 20 pounds back on. I started back 5 days ago and am down 3.7 pounds.

just to point out that this topic was started over 3 years ago, chances are they aren't even doing now what they were then Smile

===================================================================================


"If losing weight were easy, we would all be walking around with a six pack"

Jan
pedroguillem

Joined: Jan 16
Posts: 1

      quote  
Posted: 20 Jan 2016, 20:31
paperiniko wrote:
I do not agree and I believe that there is no scientific backing for this claim, No major and seriously designed study has ever shown that calories from carbs are worse than calories from proteins or fats for the general "healthy" population. Short of serious hormonal imbalances (that affect a very small portion of the population),the macro splits have no relevant effect on the fat loss effectiveness only calories deficit has.


Yes there IS scientific literature, a lot!. Maybe "worse" is not the best word to describe calorie sources... Energy is energy... no doubt.. but your body simply performs a different biochemical process for each type of energetic molecule you ingest.

Yes.. Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram and Fats have 9 calories per gram.. but the body speaks a rather different language to each. The metabolic pathways the liver uses to break down energy molecules vary depending on their chemical composition.

Glycolisis is the standard metabolic path for breaking down glucose (sugars/carbs), while B-Oxidation is the path for breaking down tryglicerids (fats).

Atkins, Dukan, and EVERY other high-protein diet works because FAT is what makes you FAT... if you deprive yourself from carbs your liver boosts B-Oxidation and inhibits the Glucolytic path (no sugar or insulin available)... so you force your body to drain its own fat reserves to keep you alive!!.

There is also an PRIORITY in which biomolecules are consumed by by the body.. being:

1-CARBS
2-FATS
3-PROTEIN.

Long story short.. you HAVE to be out of sugar in order to burn your FAT reserves, which is exactly what you do when excercising.

So yes.. there IS a "difference between calories", not as in the physical meaning of energy, but on how you use them and which is best for loosing weigth.

Biochemistry explains nutrition, not Martha Stewart.
pdukan

Joined: Aug 08
Posts: 2

      quote  
Posted: 16 May 2016, 03:16
I am Dr Dukan Pierre.
I read your post and I would like to answer you.
My ùethod is different from Atkins one. I make a great difference between the carbs depending of their degre of penetration from mouth to blood. What is important and makes the nuisance of carbs is not calories or quantity of carbs but the power to sollicit pancreas and realising of insulin.
Insulin is the major responsible of putting on weight and without eating invasive carbs, it would be very difficult to produce fat. In a world without high penetration carbs and tabacco, it will be very few of obesity, diabetes and lung cancer.
High glycemia is highly toxic for human organs and without insulin, eating half packet of biscuits would kill you in half an hour by diabetic coma.
Remenber that our body and our pohysiology has been designed to work in a world WITHOUT any trace of invasive carbs like white bread our white flour and white sugar.
Each time, you eat these foods, insulin save your life by turning glucose in fat.

So to come back to your post, the quantity of carbs is interesting to take in account but their GI is also important.
Do you know that if glucose has a GI of 100, white sugar is 70, white flour is 85 and oat bran is 15 the same as the lettuce'one.
So continue to count the carbs but make the difference between them. With my diet, I use to tell : Proteins, as much as you want and vegetables, as much as you can.

Imagine a human pancreas as a big and ferocious cat sleeping not so far of the hole of a mouse who would be the sugar. If the mouse enter in a quick and noisy way, she will wake the cat pancreas up. It is what happens when you eat processed carbs. But with vegetable and oat bran mice, the cat continue to sleep easy. No insulin, no fat!
Please, excuse my poor english, remember that I am french
Have a nice day. Dr Pierre Dukan
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 1,056

      quote  
Posted: 16 May 2016, 03:39
A Doctor, stuck in the stone ages of dieting. Please troll somewhere else, you are no doctor.
Consume whatever foods you prefer, whenever you prefer to consume them, while ensuring nutrient sufficiency and meeting caloric goals.
SMueting

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 1

      quote  
Posted: 16 May 2016, 06:43
Wow! That seems seriously ridiculous! I take natural supplements and eat what I want. Guess what? Losing weight and serious inches. Not depriving myself of this food group or that. Seriously, what happens when you finally do eat carbs??? You blow up! Don't want that thanks! I eat what I want and just continue to lose. And guess what? Now I don't even want that 2nd cookie at dessert. Now I crave water and lots of fruits/veggies. I think as we all know eating a balanced meal and drinking lots of water is weight loss key! If you are able to do this strict diet plan kudos to you! It's definitely not for me though!



Forum Search
Advanced forum search



Latest Posts

First 5K walk/run last week
I completed my first 5 K walk/run (mostly walked) last weekend at age 61. Pround to say I wasn't the last one to cross the finish line! Been at a stand still with my weight loss although I have ...
by Oldhippie1 on 27 May 16 04:49 PM
Lost 21 Pounds in 21 Days
I wont lie i did lose muscle because i cut back so much. But i learned that my body needs to get down to a certain weight to cut fat. I probably had like 7 pounds of water weight, and thanks! @ endeland ...
by bauribe on 26 May 16 05:01 PM
A new way to lose weight.
JustineJones has it right, but it's not like our bodies decide "oh it's midnight have to reset our calorie counts". Your body doesn't differentiate between days. As long as you&# ...
by ieGod on 26 May 16 12:51 PM
weight loss
You're keeping your carbs low and lost 5lbs, cut your carbs down to 20g a day and you'll lose even more. A ketogenic diet is based on the concept of reducing carbs and limiting insulin response, ...
by philmck on 26 May 16 07:37 AM
New to group - Question for phase II
randyhudson wrote: [quote=rabb... you think it works for you that's fine - it's not about denouncing anything but bringing wider understanding to what we do and there being no scientific evidence ...
by rabbitjb on 24 May 16 01:40 PM