Good Fats Vers Bad Fats

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AlyshaR

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 5

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 08:53
I was watching a weight lose show on TCL the other night and the nutritionist was talking about the difference between good fats and bad fats. I always thought cheese and milk and dairy products like that were good for you, but she said they fall under the "bad fats" category. Any of you out there that can help me figure out what are "good fats" and what are "bad fats"? I look online and I can never get a straight answer with like a list of good or bad fats.
christina56

Joined: Sep 09
Posts: 87

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 09:00
as far as I know, bad fats are trans and anything hydrogenated; I love cheese and am glad that I have some willpower, otherwise I'd be eating it all the time. Personally I do not consider cheese and milk bad fats. These are from natural products...just my opinion Smile
AlyshaR

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 5

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 09:29
That is exactly how I felt because cheese and milk give you strong bones and you need dairy to keep a balanced diet if not from cheese idk where else i would get it since I don't really care for milk.
fredmugs

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 381

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 09:40
Milk and cheese do not give you strong bones. What you need is the calcium and vitamin D found in those products. I'm sure there are a lot of articles out there but this one lists some foods where you can get these sources other than milk and cheese.

http://www.spine-health.com/wellness/nutrition-diet-weight-loss/sources-calcium-food

I am practically dairy free and I don't agree that dairy products are necessary for a "balanced diet." If you're looking for the dairy route a lot of people on here love Greek yogurt so I suggest looking into that.
Pain is a by-product of a good time.
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 09:42
This is exactly the wrong advice!
The current recommendations on fat from the nutritional 'experts' are completely bassackwards.

The reason you cannot get a strait answer on this is because the government and industry want to sell a lot of corn and soy based products. They create 'vegetable oils' from these products and tell us that they are the healthy fats. However repeated studies show the exact opposite. This is also the answer to the "French Paradox" The French eat a lot of animal fat and have fairly robust health markers.

A lot of people here will disagree with me but saturated fat has been unfairly criticized due to it being treated the same as trans fats in most research studies. Saturated fats are what is found in cheese, milk, and most animal products. Plus there are studies out there showing the health benefits of saturated fats and its protective qualities for heart health.

For more information check out these links

http://www.realfooddigest.com/complete-guide-to-fats-and-oils/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/17/saturated-fat1.aspx
http://www.coconutoil.com/oiling_america.htm

-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 10:16
Here are some more links

The Great Fat Debate (this shows the confusion between the experts)
http://blog.fooducate.com/2010/11/22/the-great-fat-debate/

Enjoy Saturated fats, they're good for you. (presentation from a heart surgeon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32NZHY


-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"
fatoldlady

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 296

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 10:24
I agree with Mike, there are so many "studies" out there sponsored by special interest groups who are just promoting their products. People have been eating animal fats for thousands of years and it doesn't make sense to me that these products that have only popped up recently are so much better for you. Margarine is more healthy than butter? I don't think so.
debb02852

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 7

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 11:08
I also agree with Mike and "fat old lady" (cute name). We use saturated fats for energy when we don't over load our bodies with complex carbs and sugars. The facts are out there and they are amazing.
In order for things to change, I MUST change!
Ingria

Joined: Oct 11
Posts: 530

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 11:38
There might be reasons why you would want to limit dairy (lactose intolerance, allergies to whey or casein) but not fat content. I agree with previous posters, the information that the nutritionist was using is outdated and biased, though you will most likely hear it again and again. It will probably take another 20 years for people in the industry to accept the fact that low fat and vegetable oil crazes were mistakes.

When choosing your dairy products, especially milk try not to select 0 or low fat, try to avoid homogenized milk - select cream on top products instead, and try to avoid products that contain dry milk (most low fat products do contain dry milk). It is oxidation during the drying process that affects your cholesterol, not the fat in the milk. Raw organic, grass fed dairy would of course be even better, but in modern America it is more of a wishful thinking than practical advice.
~~~~~~~~~~
The first thing you lose on a diet is your sense of humor. ~ Author Unknown
It doesn’t matter what diet you follow… What matters is what makes you follow your diet. ~ Tom Venuto
Cthulhu

Joined: Dec 11
Posts: 167

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 13:18
AlyshaR, it's literally an outright war in the health science community, there's no consensus on what concretely makes for a healthy diet.

I personally agree with the reduced carb attitudes as I've seen it personally in my blood cholesterol profiles. As hard as it was to believe, eating significantly less carbs lowered my triglycerides and improved all elements of my cholesterol readings.

Track your food faithfully and it will likely give you excellent feedback to find what works best for you.

“The last of the human freedoms is to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances.” ~Victor E. Frankl
asagohan

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 229

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 13:45
Very confusing! But I dont have to worry about that at all, I'm dairy free on doctors advice.
AlyshaR

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 5

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 15:23
Well this pretty much did leave me right back where I am I see both points, but it is not only just dairy. What technically constitutes as bad fats or good fats? If I look on the back of my food labels what should I be looking for?
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 15:51
Well, you can't really be told but rather you have to come to your own conclusions based on your own research.

You have to take your health into your own hands and not rely on others for your livelihood.

Above I posted some links challenging conventional wisdom. If you want the popular conventional wisdom you'll want to read something like this:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/skinny-fat-good-fats-bad-fats

-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"
gnat824

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 1,561

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 17:04
There's definitely a lack of consensus here but most people agree that plant-based fats are the best- avocado, olive oil, nuts, and the latest craze, coconut oil. I never feel guilty about eating peanut butter, as long as it's a reasonable portion Wink
- Natalie
Leslie P

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 49

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 18:39
Mikefarinha is a wealth of great information! I encourage you all to really take some time and research the links he has provided! Be open to the fact that some of what you may learn goes against main-stream media on what you "need" in your diet. But you will benefit from it. Low-fat/low-calorie diets work against what your body needs that is why you feel hungry and deprived and gain it all back. If you are tired of the same yo-yo cycle, maybe it's time for a different approach!
gkcfm95

Joined: May 10
Posts: 448

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 18:51
Leslie P wrote:
Mikefarinha is a wealth of great information! I encourage you all to really take some time and research the links he has provided! Be open to the fact that some of what you may learn goes against main-stream media on what you "need" in your diet. But you will benefit from it. Low-fat/low-calorie diets work against what your body needs that is why you feel hungry and deprived and gain it all back. If you are tired of the same yo-yo cycle, maybe it's time for a different approach!


Amen! Knowledge is power Very Happy

~kelly
qualitygeek

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 1

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Posted: 26 Feb 2012, 20:49
The only real bad fats are artificially created trans fats - those that are partially hydrogenated by unnatural processes. Other fat sources are fine in moderation. Every cell is your body needs fat to maintain the membrane which holds the contents of the cell inside the cell.

This is especially true for the nervous system which needs lots more omega-3 fatty acids (FAs) than the average person consumes (unless they are taking it in a supplement).

Fats are a stored form of fatty acids. Fats contain 3 fatty acids (FA) which when put together on a glycerol backbone are called a triglyceride. The differences among fatty acids that make one kind of fat different from another is how many double bonds between the carbons in each FA & the placement of those double bonds. Fatty acids are made of carbon chains with lots of hydrogens and a carboxyl group (-COOH).

Saturated fatty acids have zero double bonds between the carbons - the carbons are full of hydrogens except at the carboxyl end. Bacon fat (lard) is an example of a saturate fat - saturated fats are usually solid at room temp & may become liquid when heated.

Monounsaturated fatty acids have a single double bond and are liquid at room temp, but may solidify when refrigerated. Olive oil contains oleic acid which is a monounsaturated omega-9 - the double bond (cis which means same side) is at the 9th carbon from the non-carboxyl end, technically since it is an 18-C chain, it is also the 9th carbon from the carboxyl group. Foods containing monounsaturated fats include almonds, avocados, bacon, canola oil, cashews, eggs, grapeseed oil, ground beef, hazelnuts, high oleic safflower oil, high oleic sunflower oil, macadamia nuts, olives (discussed above), pecans, peanuts, peanut oil, pistachios, sunflower oil and tea seed oil. Note: foods with fatty acid content contain more than one type of fatty acid.

Polyunsaturated fatty acids have more than one double bond & are cis isomers. Linoleic acid (LA) is an omega-6 with 2 double bonds - the first of which is at the 6th carbon from the non-carboxylic end. Alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) is an omega-3 with 18 carbons & three double bonds - the first of which is at the 3rd carbon from the non-carboxylic end . Arachidonic acid (AA) is an omega-6 with 20 carbons and four double bonds - the first of which is at the 6th carbon from the non-carboxylic end. Only two EFAs are known for humans: LA & ALA. Foods high in polyunsaturated fats include anchovies, Brazil nuts, corn oil, cottonseed oil, flaxseed & its oil, herring, mackerel, pine nuts, safflower oil, salmon, sardines, sesame seeds, soy products, sunflower seeds, trout, tuna and walnuts.

Omega-6 fatty acids can be found in leafy vegetables, seeds, nuts, grains and vegetable oils (corn, safflower, soybean, cottonseed, sesame, sunflower). Most of us get plenty of omega-6s in our diets. Intake of grains and vegetable oils should be limited since most commonly consumed oils are higher in omega-6 FAs which are easily converted to AA which can be very inflammatory. AA is not bad, it is necessary for some physiological functions, but too much can be less than positive for health. Animal proteins & grains are the primary sources of direct AA in dietary intake.

Ecosanoids made from Omega-3 FAs are anti-inflammatory. Omega-3 FAs are easily damaged by heat & easily oxidized so should be consumed with high anti-oxidant sources like foods high in vitamin C & should be minimally processed to avoid damaging the FA. Good sources of omega-3 include: wild-caught sardines, shrimp, scallops, herring, anchovies, cod, halibut, salmon & tuna; flaxseed; kale; collard greens; spinach; raspberries; fermented organic non-GMO soy products; walnuts. Symptoms of an omega-3 deficiency include fatigue, dry and/or itchy skin, brittle hair and nails, constipation, depression, frequent colds, poor concentration, lack of physical endurance and joint pain. The skin on the soles of my feet gets super dry & cracks when I'm deficient in omega-3s so I try to remember to supplement with Omega Sufficiency by Innate Choice - it is the only fish oil I have tried that I don't taste all day (& night) after taking it. Make sure any omega-3 supplements that you use do not contain sodium benzoate or potassium as an additive - this gets converted to benzene in the presence of heat or vitamin C & benzene is a known carcinogen.

Artificially created trans fats are made by adding hydrogen to break a double bond in a polyunsaturated cis oil . Why do they do this? Hydrogenation makes the oil more stable, increases product shelf life and allows the oils to be undergo heating at higher temperatures. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is made by ruminant animals such as cattle, sheep, goats . CLA is found in the fat stores of these animals - the milk fats & body fat. CLA is both a trans fatty acid and a cis fatty acid. Meat and dairy from grass-fed, free-range animals have higher quantities of CLA.

BTW, cholesterol is needed as a precursor for normal androgen production - men not producing or eating enough will end up with low testosterone. A couple trying to get pregnant with insufficient innate or dietary cholesterol will probably not be able to make a baby & if they are able to make a baby, the probability of a healthy baby is lower.

I don't get my info or opinions from webmd - I got mine from various graduate courses using Marks' Basic Medical Biochemistry & an assortment of Clinical Nutrition textbooks.
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

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Posted: 27 Feb 2012, 00:01
Great info qualitygeek! I do have to correct you on one common misconception. Lard is not a good example of saturated fat. Lard is 45% monounsaturated fat, 40% saturated fat, and 10% polyunsaturated fat.

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/583

Coconut oil and to a lesser extent beef tallow are good examples of saturated fats.

And a good take away from your info is to never cook with oil that advertises that it contains Omega-3 (aka Canola oil)

From what I've heard both Omega-3 and Omega-6 are essential (and we should all strive for a 1:1 ratio between the two) however the absolute requirement for them should be small... meaning don't have too much of either. Our total consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids should be fairly small since they can oxidize in our bodies if they linger too long.

If you want to geek out about this stuff I think you would very much enjoy the blog of Chris Masterjohn (soon to be PhD) who does great interviews informing us lay people about a lot of the science of why which fats (and cholesterol) are important.

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/

-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"
lineruds

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 10

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Posted: 28 Feb 2012, 16:50
Animal fats, including dairy, are bad fats. They're saturated, they raise your cholesterol, and they're loaded with calories without beneficial nutrients. If you must have cheese, limit it, I've learned that I'm better off without it. Plant fats are good fats, nuts, seeds, olives, avocados... they're unsaturated, therefore they lower your LDL's (the bad cholesterol) and they provide more energy and nutrients for the amount of calories they contain. However, if you're trying to lose weight, you should limit the fat in your diet altogether because you're body will use it's stored fat when it needs it.
lineruds

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 10

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Posted: 28 Feb 2012, 16:52
plant also raise your HDL, the good cholestoerol, which counters the LDL (bad cholesterol).

And the people above are right about artificial fats which are transfats such as vegetable and corn oils. Stay away from anything that has hydrogenated, or partially hydrogenated on it's ingredients list. According to Dr. Fuhrman it is best to not consume extracted oils at all. In a nut shell, if your looking for healthy fat, eat it straight from the plant source. I've learned to make salad dressings with real nuts and olives rather than oils.



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