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ncofficer

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 43

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Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 19:29
hi all

I am doing really well on my diet. I have Diabetes type 2 and I am staying away from bread, suger, and all that white stuff you should not eat. I just have a question?
I am only eating about 200 carbs or less a day. Is that good or bad? I eat alot of vegs. about 70%, fruit about 10%, and protein 20% no red meat. With what i have been eating the last week the carbs are still about 175-200 without ANY bread..
August 8,2011 Start weight 282.2
Sept. 8 2011 Goal weight 265.0 - [b]Goal 265 met on 9-4-11
Started back on 12-5-11
Jan. 5 2012 goal weight 255.0
NCNOLE

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 1,218

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Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 20:30
Your brain needs at least 150 gm carbs to function properly. As a diabetic you definitely need to make sure you are balancing your carbs and not completely eliminating them. You should be eating about the same amount of carbs per meal. 200 gms should probably be your goal max to help with weight loss. Fruits and dairy products do contain carbs - healthier ones, but still carbs. Try finding foods that are higher in fiber and protein to help fill you up. Eating lots of veggies is always a good think - should try for 50% veggies w/ lunch and dinner.
hkaruga

Joined: Apr 11
Posts: 129

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Posted: 12 Aug 2011, 08:29
That is simply not true carbohydrates are NOT technically an essential nutrient, you body is capable sustaining itself without them. Somewhat higher intake may be indicated for those involved in high intensity, endurance sports, we are taking marthoners and the like but not for most of us.

I think that the number one problem with the 'science' of nutrition, sites like this, physician's advice and related online blogs & articles is the false belief everyone has that there is only one ideal diet for optimal health, which is always conveniently whatever diet that they personally advocate for.Question With the vast majority of your carbs coming from veggies a good number of them are likely in the form of fiber, which is not digestable and doesn't not have the same impact sugars and starches on your blood sugar, hence the reason it is a better option than bread and pasta, which may have a little fiber but most don't compare to produce that tend to be more natural and less processed.

You are not at risk of eating too few if you are averaging 175-200. I eat about half of that may carbs though not diabetic and am perfectly healthy on this diet, though I do not ommit all red meat just all processed meat. The real question is are you getting the best possible result in regards to your blood sugar readings while following this diet? (Is it working for you?)
NCNOLE

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 1,218

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Posted: 12 Aug 2011, 10:20
hkaruga - please show me scientific literature that carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient - I happen to have a master's in nutrition, so I do know what I am talking about. I work w/ diabetics on a daily basis.
ncofficer

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 43

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Posted: 12 Aug 2011, 13:59
hkaruga
My blood suger before this diet was and avg. of 200-230. Now that i have been on this diet my blood suger has gone down. Now is is about 160-180. I think that is a big drop, but i know it is still to high.
I feel great doing this diet so far.
August 8,2011 Start weight 282.2
Sept. 8 2011 Goal weight 265.0 - [b]Goal 265 met on 9-4-11
Started back on 12-5-11
Jan. 5 2012 goal weight 255.0
hkaruga

Joined: Apr 11
Posts: 129

      quote  
Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 17:53
Firstly you have to look up the definition of what an essential nutrient is. Carbohydrates are broken down into glucose in the body, that is sugar, which is not essential to the body. If you would like to hear it from someone with more nutritional education than me (I am only a nurse, what do I know?) the journal of clinical nutrition http://www.ajcn.org/content/75/5/951.2.long lists the essential nutrients in this article and notes that there is little to no evidence that even severe carbohydrate restriction, like 10-20% of what you are eating, is harmful. I was not insulting your diet and believe to each their own, you have to find what works for you. Would further carb restriction benefit your blood sugar numbers? Perhaps, I don't push my own views without facts only seek to keep people open minded. So often we in the medical field get it wrong: ie: pushing margarine high in transfats over natural oils and butter, Is coffee or moderate alcohol really that evil? with all of the conflicting evidence who knows?, It took the ADA years before they would reccomend that diabetics ought to restrict carbohydrates at all, etc.
jsfantome

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 1,868

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 18:23
Well, I don't have a master's in nutrition, and I am not a nurse. Nor do I have studies to copy and paste here to help you.

I am just a daughter - of a man that died from complications of Diabetes II.

You are doing a great thing for yourself, getting your weight loss efforts rolling, paying attention to these things to get your blood sugar numbers down and under control. WELL DONE in that regard.

It has been my experience, that a low carb lifestyle works very well for Diabetics.

And there are some small tweeks that I would/could suggest - after looking at your recent food journals. I think aiming for 80-120g's / carbs a day is a good place to start.

Veggies are wonderful, healthy sources of carbs. Some lower than others, but a fantastic choice! Fresh trumps frozen...which beats out canned every time! (watch for high sodium and avoid.)

Fruits - also fantastic...yet tricky. As some are quite high w/ natural sugars occuring in them. (some veggies too really.)

Proteins, paired w/ veggies, some healthy fats (such as olive oil to cook w/) and some fresh fruit ... all can get you continuing in the right direction.

I am not suggesting you go on something like Atkins - but the atkins.com website is free...and on there you will find Food Lists that contain the LOWEST, then next lowest, on up the ladder of carb type foods. This can help you in knowing that you could easily choose Strawberries, or Raspberries over an Orange - more often... doesn't mean you can't have the orange...but better to know which are low and which are high, huh?

Same with veggies... better to regularly eat your fill of the lower 3/4 of the veggies available - than to over eat something like corn or potatoes. Again, you can have them... in limited moderation.

Several companies make readily available Low Carb Tortilla wraps, which could easily be swapped out for the 'sandwich thins' you are using. You have to arm yourself with KNOWLEDGE and this will help you greatly in making the appropriate choices to keep your carb intake under control.

And I personally see nothing wrong in you eating even lower amounts of carbs if you feel you want to. Once you get accustomed to what foods have what carbs... you may find it very easy to eat well on 40-80 carbs a day... and that may end up being much better for your overall blood sugar numbers.

Couple all of that with the activity you are increasing... and I really think you are doing a fantastic job - for yourself and your loved ones! Keep up the good work! I'm cheering you on!!!!
Live, Love, Laugh ...make each day memorable and enjoy the journey.

The bar noted below, does not tell the entire story!
ncofficer

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 43

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 19:14
thanks jsfantome
I eat the sandwish thins because I get sick if the wraps really fast. I hope they come out with low card ones soon. When I get home from work I look forward to eat my orange and peach I know that might not been good for my carbs, but alot better then what i use to eat when I came home from work. I try to only eat four fruits a day and drink ALOT of water. I need to learn how to cook fish well I need to learn how to cook. I am so use to just buying my food and I never cook. I looked tonight at some salmon patties and how to cook them,but they use bread crumbs and i dont need that in the pattie. I want to cook so many foods but I know nothing about cooking. So I am going to learn how to cook. I woul dlike to take some cooking classes for healthy foods which I have been looking at too.
Thank you for all your advice and please dont stop I need it.
August 8,2011 Start weight 282.2
Sept. 8 2011 Goal weight 265.0 - [b]Goal 265 met on 9-4-11
Started back on 12-5-11
Jan. 5 2012 goal weight 255.0
thewillie

Joined: Apr 10
Posts: 92

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 19:27
yep, carbohydrates are essential. that's why so many people die each year from carbohydrate deficiency...
krystynecar

Joined: Oct 10
Posts: 153

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 19:57
Dr Richard Bernstein the man who revolutionized how diabetes was handled (he developed the home blood monitoring system) has recently come out and stated that he believes that type 1 diabetes is being handled very poorly and that if people with who are borderline type two were put on ultra restrictive carbohydrate diets they would not develop type 2 at all. He believes that insulin is at the base of all our present day deadly diseases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein and http://diabetes-solution.net/ (This is not the Dr. Bernstein of the Bernstein diet)
don't let your struggle become your identity!
GMarquee

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 3

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 20:06
up your percentage of fruits.
mcarthey

Joined: May 07
Posts: 58

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Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 20:12
If you view my journal you will see that I average around 100 grams of carbohydrates a day so I'm sorry if my brain is impaired due to my lack of energy and brain fog but I believe that you're doing great! Any amount of monitoring you do in regards to intake is a great step in the right direction. I have found that I feel great when I keep my carbs lower and I have a lot more energy so I would only suggest you do what works for you. There is a lot to say about the effects of carbs on insulin uptake and exercise and timing of carbs, along with ketosis and the prescribed low-carb diets of those with epilepsy, and how ketones are the preferred energy source of the brain, and so on and on. Educate yourself and you'll do great! Keep looking for answers! Good luck!

hkaruga

Joined: Apr 11
Posts: 129

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Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 07:52
Carbohydrate deficiency is not a disease and has probably never in the history of the world killed anyone... Try to find it in a medical book, you won't because it does NOT exist. Look at the inuits of North America and Masai of Eastern Africa (and my little cousin with epilpsey who is off medications thanks to a ketogenic diet) all eat practically no carbs and mostly protein and fat as little due to little/no eatible vegitation growing due to the extreme cold/dry heat and yet they survive and prior to the introduction of western eating habits were almost free of heart disease and cancer. People do however die of calorie deficiency, aka starvation, but that is due to lack of all nutrients not carbs.

I agree with jsfantome. Look at labels know your nutritional facts- not all fruits and veggies are created equal, i.e. berries honey due, or an apple are a better option than citrus, bananas, grapes, and dried fruit which are among the highest carb fruits out there. Another option enstead of always spending time looking at those sometimes complicated food labels that list every nutrient under the sun or seeing it after the fact and you go and put it in your journal find a book or phone app that gives you the glycemic index. You might want to consider upping your fat and protein intake somewhat, which may seem counter intuitive but for diabetics fat and protein aside from creating that full feeling, slow the digestion of the carbs/sugar from what you eat. I mean if you look at most no sugar added ice cream you will note that most of them are high in fat than there sugary counterparts this is why. This doesn't have to mean increasing meat you seem to be lacking nuts, seeds, legumes which are healthy plant sources, also avocados are great. My grandfather, who is a type II diabetic as well, had physician recommend chia seeds which are the single greatest plant soource of omega fatty acids and high in fiber as well, to help him in his dietary control of his diabetes.
krystynecar

Joined: Oct 10
Posts: 153

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Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 09:43
Not only did the Inuit (eskimos) eat almost exclusively fat and meat - they had almost zero heart disease or obesity issues - that only happened when they were introduced to a "modern" diet.
don't let your struggle become your identity!
greerp

Joined: Apr 11
Posts: 496

      quote  
Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 09:54
shewlett75 wrote:
hkaruga - please show me scientific literature that carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient - I happen to have a master's in nutrition, so I do know what I am talking about. I work w/ diabetics on a daily basis.


Did you get your degree from a cracker jack box?
greerp

Joined: Apr 11
Posts: 496

      quote  
Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 09:57
ncofficer wrote:
hi all

I am doing really well on my diet. I have Diabetes type 2 and I am staying away from bread, suger, and all that white stuff you should not eat. I just have a question?
I am only eating about 200 carbs or less a day. Is that good or bad? I eat alot of vegs. about 70%, fruit about 10%, and protein 20% no red meat. With what i have been eating the last week the carbs are still about 175-200 without ANY bread..


Eat veggies for most of your carbs before whole grains. Stay away from starches, white grains, sugary foods and drinks.

Eat protein and fat. You need to make up the calories you are missing from eating less carbs. There is nothing wrong with eating protein and fat. Your body needs both of these nutrients.

Also, make sure you are working with your doctor closely so that he/she can start lowering any medication you take when you get to that point. Drink lots of water too.
HerStrawberr...

Joined: May 11
Posts: 35

      quote  
Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 10:45
Ok, so I eat LESS then 50 total carbs a day...usually below 30 and my brain is just fine. In fact, I have lowered my BP to where I NO LONGER HAVE HIGH BP, my migraines have gone down and I have WAY more energy. Now, I'm not a DR and will never claim to be some 'nutrition expert'. I just know how I feel and how my body feels.
Smile. You're Beautifull!

"You will only change when the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of changing".

“Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength.” August Wilson


“Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow.” Mary Anne Radmacher


pixidaisy

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 548

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Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 10:54
I think what people forget is there is a difference between a good carb and a bad carb, are carbs essential to live??? Maybe, I don't know I really know nothing when it comes to this but there are a difference. There are carbs in fruits, veggies etc. So therefore Carbs are going to happen if you eat a balanced diet. That being said I know from experience that I can live on 58 - 100 grams total carbs and not have brain fog or anything like that - I have done it and I actually felt better... but those 58 total carbs came from fruits, veggies, nuts etc. NOT from Bread or pasta or overly processed foods.

Also having a degree in something doesn't make much difference, it is a piece of paper that says you went to school, you did some studying and you graduated...it does not mean you are the 100% right... just my opinion but I have seen several people on hear claiming to have a degree in nutrition and they really just know what a book said to them, and I also know people who started out with very little knowledge in the way of nutrition, micro/macro nutriets etc that have learned from doing/experimenting/reading etc. that know more about total nutrition. So saying you have a degree in something does very little to impress me.

You say you want a cheeseburger but all I hear is "I need love" - a comic strip on the fridge at work.

You have failed only when you quit trying. Until then, you're still in the act of progression. So, never quit trying and you'll never be a failure.

My Blog
http://pixpocketlint.wordpress.com/
esimnons

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 162

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Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 11:00
I hate the AMA, nutritional studies and all that stuff. You have to remember that the information provided is based on an average. it is not specific to an individual and non of us are average. The reason I hate it is because people think it is an absolute truth. That being said - the best advice I know is to track you food carefully and make changes to see what affect the changes make to your body. My Mother is Diabetic (was on the insuline pump for years) I am Diabetic (borderline who crosses back and forth if not careful)and my Grandmother is Diabetic (borderline in my opinion but not in the recently changed opinion of the Diabetic groups and AMA folks). Each of us can eat the same diet including an apple and get extremely different results. My Mother can eat an apple with no problems. My Grandmother can eat an apple and it raises her BS slightly. I can eat an apple and feel as if I am in a coma or something and will have hugely elevated BS numbers. Make certain that you go by what your body says and use all the wonderful advice that you get as a guide - not a bible.
jsfantome

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 1,868

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Posted: 18 Aug 2011, 12:12
ncofficer - so... the short answer is ... you have some learning to do! FOR YOU! But don't forget that what you are doing for yourself is a wonderful, and worthwhile thing!

Cooking, btw, is not that hard... just take your time...and experiment. Once you familiarize yourself with the foods you'll be most frequently eating... then you can start to pair them together in ways that you think they will taste good. And, Viola! You're a chef!

Have Fun w/it!!! And keep up the great efforts! You're doing so well right out of the gate!

I'll stop now...you have some reading to do. Smile
Live, Love, Laugh ...make each day memorable and enjoy the journey.

The bar noted below, does not tell the entire story!



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