An Open Letter....

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alllicat

Joined: Nov 09
Posts: 39

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Posted: 03 May 2010, 15:31

I am upset that fat secret has stopped allowing its members to track WW points. It is upsetting. What is also upsetting is being told by members of the dieting and life style changing community that we have no right to be upset and that we should suck it up and keep our mouths shut.

I understand that the internet is a place for people to anonymously post their opinions without any type of recourse, but I think that mutual respect is also in order. No one diet plan is better than another. I mean, if you are starving yourself, then well, that's not a plan, that's a short term fix, but who is to say that the Fat Blast diet is better than Weight Watchers. Or that South Beach is better than Atkins? All I think that we can comment on is what works best for US.

Where is the sense in trying to convince someone that their way is the best? Where is the point in acting like a know-it-all, and then daring people to prove you wrong? This website is for support, not to be the "King of the Hill," and end all, be all in the realm of diet and weight loss.

I can, and sometimes do, get my jollies from a heated internet discussion. What I partook in on Friday was out of character for me, but it is something that I have never done on this site and probably haven't done since I was in college. I do not wish to regress to that again.

I read somewhere that weight loss isn't one size fits all, and you have to mold and fix your plan to fit to you. My plan is for me! Was I following Weight Watchers? For the most part, yes, but also, I would watch my intake, and work out to make sure that I'm putting out more than I'm putting in. Should I be labelled a thief by some people because of that? In my opinion, I don't think so. I did attend meetings for years. But I'd rather spend 12 dollars a week on a yoga class, then sit in a room and listen to people lament about how hard it is to lose weight. I'm applying my previous knowledge and using this site. I think that the Weight Watchers meeting leaders would be happy that I've been able to apply what I tried to pick out between the bitching, to my everday life, and it has worked for me. And, just so no one jumps all over me, I would say that people enjoy their meetings, I guess my time and day of the week attracted the whiny people.

Do I follow the plan to a T, no. I don't give myself 35 extra points a week. I don't reward myself with more food just because I exercised. But the bare bones, yes. And this site helped me do it.

Do I have a problem with Fat Secret removing the points from their site? A little bit, just because it makes my life a little harder, but if I've lost 45 pounds, I can take the tools that I've learned here and apply them to the rest of my life.

Making a blanket statement hurts, and sometimes will hit a nerve with someone. Do not take offense when they defend themselves and their choices, because choices are an extension of them.

If you have a problem with me personally, then I am sorry in advance for offending you, but please, remember, the pen is mightier than the sword. And in this case, it's a keystroke.
the most satisfying thing I ever took a bite of was my tounge.
sheripickle

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 660

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Posted: 03 May 2010, 20:59
If you want to be upset, be upset with weight watchers for not allowing FREE sites like these to use their points system, I figure if people feel they have to "count points" and be on a paid diet, then they need to go "pay" for their diet at that site, just my two cents, not trying to sound like a jerk. I know weight watchers works for a lot of people.. but like I said, its not fatsecrets fault, its weight watchers.... the title of your post said open letter, so I was assuming you wanted feedback Smile
~Cheryl~
Mersyp

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 1

      quote  
Posted: 03 May 2010, 21:04
I agree alllicat!!! I have all the resources (the books/slides/quicktracks, etc) to follow WW but don't want to pay for it...I don't even care if I had to calculate them myself, but now, I can't see them for my Food Journal. Why use this site then??
leahl

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 315

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Posted: 03 May 2010, 21:15
I second sheripickle. Blame weight watchers for wanting users to pay for their services. Ww blew the whistle on this one. Would you rather FS face a lawsuit?
sheripickle

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 660

      quote  
Posted: 03 May 2010, 21:34
Mersyp wrote:
I agree alllicat!!! I have all the resources (the books/slides/quicktracks, etc) to follow WW but don't want to pay for it...I don't even care if I had to calculate them myself, but now, I can't see them for my Food Journal. Why use this site then??



as a professional artist ho gets paid for my services and owns copyright to my work, a statement like that would get ya suedWink
~Cheryl~
Valnessa

Joined: Apr 10
Posts: 12

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Posted: 03 May 2010, 21:37
Try the Firefox extension and script that Healsdata did.
sooki

Joined: Dec 09
Posts: 795

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Posted: 03 May 2010, 21:58
I think POINTS are awesome and WW works (for a time, it worked for me, but it doesn't work now and I've regained the weight twice, so WW doesn't work for me and I won't pay them or use their points anymore.)

I can support WW people, and I can sympathize over the loss of points tracking on FS. But, I understand why it was done, and I can't support the complaining. It got old so very quickly.

And, I guess they are all gone now, so I can safely say this: what's up with threatening to leave over this? It's a free site. You're not even voting with dollars! I can't support those people. I guess I don't have to because they are gone, right? It just seemed so petty.

I didn't read all the WW threads, so I can't say I saw anyone saying WW is not a good program. I saw people trying to say that you should try something else, but I didn't see anyone saying it was bad.

Ack, I don't know. I just wish this would end. The boards were better before people got upset that the points were gone.
DISCLAIMER: I expect to lose this weight over the next 6 months to 5 years. I'm not going to feel like a failure if it takes an entire month to lose 1 pound. I'm going to feel like a success when that happens! I may offer advice that I'm currently not taking myself. Feel free to call me on that!
Marisseli77

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 2

      quote  
Posted: 04 May 2010, 07:59
I pay for Weight Watchers, I attend the meetings, but I found it easiser to count my points through Fat Secret since I sit behind my computer all day at work. I am disappointed, I thought that it was a helpful tool. Points are just one part of the WW program and any other paying member will say the same thing.
hpatel616

Joined: Apr 10
Posts: 3

      quote  
Posted: 04 May 2010, 09:56
Valnessa - can you give me more information about this extension?
stacecom

Joined: Dec 09
Posts: 5

      quote  
Posted: 04 May 2010, 12:54
Marisseli77 wrote:
I pay for Weight Watchers, I attend the meetings, but I found it easiser to count my points through Fat Secret since I sit behind my computer all day at work. I am disappointed, I thought that it was a helpful tool. Points are just one part of the WW program and any other paying member will say the same thing.


Paying member here. I completely concur.

Everyone here is assuming that WW made fatsecret.com remove the point counts. However, that is not fatsecret's stance. They claim it is to avoid 'favortism' towards any one particular diet.

I buy *many* non-Weight Watchers foods that include the point values on the package. Some of them are licensing it (and even using the WW logo), but others aren't. Some just call them "food points". But the fact remains, there are ways around WW having to protect their publicly readable patent.

Shortly after first joining WW, I learned to calculate points in my head for the foods I eat. (It's really easy: 50 Cals=1 pt, 12g fat=1 pt, 4g or more of fiber=-1 pt.) The calculating wasn't what was useful for me.

What was useful was that instead of carrying around a journal and something to write down with, or instead of typing things into my phone, I could use the database of foods provided by other members here, and add them to my diary quickly. The "Calorie Counter" Android app replaced my Journal. I could now track everything I ate easily, and see a running total of my points.

It's not a perfect WW replacement, mind you, and I didn't use it that way. It doesn't tell you how many points you can eat in a day. It doesn't track any of your 35 extra points per week. It doesn't calculate points earned for exercise. But, just from a food tracking POV, it was awesome.

Now, from my phone, I'm okay -- I'm not adding the update. Ditto for my iPad. So, on the website I don't get to see the WW points, unless I can get the greasemonkey script to work right on my machine.

So I'll get by, but they've gone and removed what was a useful tool for people trying to lose weight. And, I think, lost sight of what we're supposed to be doing here.
sukiki

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 17

      quote  
Posted: 05 May 2010, 12:50
stacecom wrote:
Everyone here is assuming that WW made fatsecret.com remove the point counts. However, that is not fatsecret's stance. They claim it is to avoid 'favortism' towards any one particular diet.


That would be the legal speak way of saying they made us take down the points or face a lawsuit but we can't say that without defaming them and risking a different lawsuit so we're going to go this route as part of our agreement with WW's to not sue us. The only 'reference' to a diet they removed was WW points, everything else stayed, obviously it's because WW noticed and wanted (rightly) people to pay for their program.

And yes, before anyone yells, I DO pay to go to the WW meetings weekly, and yes I found the tool here extra helpful (I hate wasting trees to right it down), but I DO understand that I have no right to expect them to let me use it for free here, regardless of my status as a member.

Being none of us pay a cent to FatSecret, imho, none of us have a lick of a right to criticize them or expect them to face lawsuits just to make our lives (and desire to get a paid program for free) easier.
stacecom

Joined: Dec 09
Posts: 5

      quote  
Posted: 05 May 2010, 14:05
Whoa. That post is a scarily defensive reply to a pretty much straight-facts post I made. If I may, a few points:

1) I know more than one site/software/product that once used the WW points, and when they were asked to stop, they simply said that WW asked them to stop, and that they would. There's no defamation going on there. You're making quite a leap of logic. Until FatSecret says WW asked them to stop, I think everyone here is making a pretty broad assumption when they put the blame there.

2) None of us pay a cent to FatSecret. We do, however, pay with our eyeballs. FatSecret isn't some philanthropist organization doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They are in this to make money, and their doing so requires our presence on the site. We're perfectly entitled to say what we like and don't like. And we can vote with our eyeballs and stop using it if we want.

Personally, I'm willing to work around it. The conveniences outweigh the inconveniences. But don't claim we don't have a right to say what we like or don't.
sukiki

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 17

      quote  
Posted: 05 May 2010, 16:36
stacecom wrote:
But don't claim we don't have a right to say what we like or don't.


Then don't say I don't have a right to disagree and call my post 'defensive' just because it doesn't agree with yours. Goes both ways.

Everyone wants 'the right to post their opinion' on this site yet everyone attacks the person who doesn't agree with them like they don't have the same right. I was polite, I stated my OPINION on the situation, I said nothing about your rights to yours.
stacecom

Joined: Dec 09
Posts: 5

      quote  
Posted: 05 May 2010, 17:05
sukiki wrote:
Everyone wants 'the right to post their opinion' on this site yet everyone attacks the person who doesn't agree with them like they don't have the same right. I was polite, I stated my OPINION on the situation, I said nothing about your rights to yours.


If I may.

sukiki wrote:
Being none of us pay a cent to FatSecret, imho, none of us have a lick of a right to criticize them or expect them to face lawsuits just to make our lives (and desire to get a paid program for free) easier.
(emphasis added)
sukiki

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 17

      quote  
Posted: 05 May 2010, 17:44
stacecom wrote:
sukiki wrote:
Everyone wants 'the right to post their opinion' on this site yet everyone attacks the person who doesn't agree with them like they don't have the same right. I was polite, I stated my OPINION on the situation, I said nothing about your rights to yours.


If I may.

sukiki wrote:
Being none of us pay a cent to FatSecret, imho, none of us have a lick of a right to criticize them or expect them to face lawsuits just to make our lives (and desire to get a paid program for free) easier.
(emphasis CORRECTED)


and if *I* may, the words before it 'in my honest/humble opinion' ... please don't selectively misquote me to make your point.



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