Switching diets

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adrianna123

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 521

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 10:59
All I ask for is support and advice (little ass kickin is fine, lol). Although, I do NOT want someone quoting the book to me. I bought it. I have bought every damn one of them so I can read for myself. If I ask a question its because either 1. I dont understand something or 2. there might be another way to do something and I might ask how it works for someone else.
"WANT to be thin MORE than you want that piece of cake"
Adrianna
theewhoshops

Joined: Jun 09
Posts: 145

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 11:17
I had posted on another post with this low carb group also, and felt that my question for clarification was jumped on too. Maybe I wasn't clear on what my intentions were, maybe its just the crabbiness that some experience when starting the low carb diet(lol), I don't know. But, I feel there is a better way of expressing yourself, rather than attacking one another.
Here are my intentions, I don't have the Atkins book, otherwise I would be following it. I have the guidlines from a friend for Ketogenics, which sounds similar, and I know it has worked for me in the past, so my intention from my post was to get clarification, not a lecture about doing my homework. I felt that this was the best group to get insight on this type of diet. I hope I still can.




bamalane

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 213

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 12:09
I would be specific about who you don't want to hear from if you have a question. If certain folks, including myself, are not who you are looking to hear from point them out. Nothing wrong with saying 'Not looking for any help from name, name, and name. You are not appreciated and will be ignored.' Sucks, but that's what it looks like it has come to now. Folks who are investing a lot of energy, time, and resources into losing weight are already stressed as it is. I know that I am not in the best frame of mind when I am devoted, and obsessed with my weight loss. I gather it is the same for everyone else. Just hang in there, and do what you got to do regardless of anyone else. I almost left this site last night, but I'll be damned if I let a lot of strangers and their rantings run me off! Pride and ego have their uses! Mine just won't let me give in that easy. LOL Actually makes me more determined and aggressive.
Self-indulgence makes us slaves to our egos while self-discipline and restraint are portals to real freedom.--Daniel Lapin
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 12:20
Thanks, Mimi, UseMy, Denise and others for sticking up for me.
I do appreciate it, but have no worry, I really don't care if other people like it or not, I'm going to write what I have to say because hardly anyone else is saying it and if they don't like it, they can stop reading right now.

I understand why people take it so hard when their way is questioned- I mean, you think you've found the magic bullet, right? How dare anyone question it?

It is truly more like religious zealotry than anything else.

Here's what's different about my way of doing it: I'm flexible. You CAN question my eating habits and I will be more than happy to listen if you have a valid point that is based on something. When I learn something new, I adjust my diet. I'll give you an example of something I learned by listening to you people, Denise specifically, about Atkins.

I kept hearing you people go on about demonizing fats and how really, a higher fat content is good. Like a lot of people of our time, I had always thought that Low Fat was the way to go for optimum health, but after reading this High Fat stuff, I really looked into it and found that there's really no basis for the idea that Low Fat is healthier. Now I'm not going to take it as far as Atkins- because I don't think there's really any proof to the idea that Low Carb is healthier either. And it would not be sustainable for me. Sorry guys, I really like my carbs! Whole grains, vegetables, fruit, etc. I like fat too. And because of what I learned from listening to you guys and then researching it, I now eat a lot more of it than I used to. I used to keep it around 20%, now I don't worry about it much at all. I don't buy "low fat" products anymore either.

So THANKS! My diet is much more pleasant now Smile

And you know what else, no matter what I did to the percentages fat/protein/carbohydrate, I lost weight because I kept counting calories and I kept exercising. The only noticeable differences, for me, were digestion, and enjoyment of food.

That's all I'm saying. And I'm so much happier now that I've freed myself from the chains of "nutrition-ism" and started thinking of food as MORE than a sum of its known parts (thanks Michael Pollan for giving me the words to express this). Because if history has shown us anything, and you Atkins people should know this well if you understand the Low Fat debacle, Nutrition Science is a flawed reductionist science. They don't get it. It is so much more complicated than we are capable of understanding at this time. And to replace one macro-nutrient with another, be it fat or carb, is using your body as a science experiment, long-term consequences unknown. I'd personally rather put my faith in food, which my body has developed to digest and use since the beginning of time.

Now don't make me post the PEACE cupcake that I posted in my journal because it will drive you all insane Smile
My blog, This is not a Diet:
http://notsobigk.wordpress.com
Follow me on Facebook for tips, recipes, advice, exercise ideas and more:
http://www.facebook.com/notadiet
Fit-Kat

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 60

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 12:44
adrianna123 wrote:
Im not going to give up. Im like a lost puppy right now. I am here, I am doing this. I can. WE can!!!


I totally, 100%, relate to what you're saying & feeling. I'm in exactly the same place right now. In & out of ketosis for no obvious reason. (I'm looking at my food journal & trying to understand.) I've been keeping it below 20 carbs (gross carbs, not net) & I find my ketone level fluctuating from dark purple to negative this morning. No weight loss. No inches lost. I am also becoming frustrated. I'm not quitting though. Someone above said "...quitting now will just be another failure..." I agree. I'm sticking with it. I am going to be more diligent about exercising, however. I don't know what else to do. And when I read through the various Atkins forums, I read so many conflicting opinions of what works & what doesn't....grrrr! It's very confusing. I stopped reading all the various forums for this reason. I read only now on days when I really need some encouragement. Believe it or not, reading about what you're going through was in a way encouraging for me. It said "you're not alone". We will stick with this. Continue with the rules of induction no matter what the scale or tape measure say, and exercise. We will win this fight & we are going to be so happy when we can wear our skinny jeans again! Best wishes to you.

Oh, if you do figure out what causes you to go out of ketosis even though you're not going over your carb count, please let me know. I would love to know. Thanks.
carbcount

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 772

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 17:18
Adrianne, sorry your thread caused so much controversy, not your fault at all and don't feel that way. You have a right to ask for help all you want. I just got my dander up when I saw the "perverted" comments.
This is a freedom of speech forum and I appreciate that, but felt that Denise was out of line with that comment and it really angered me.
As for K8, I always appreciate your insight and wisdom. I have never felt you bashing any of us at all, you just are happy with your WOE and that is good and obviously successful for you. And that is all we are all looking for, so you are doing great.
bamalane, sorry for jumping at you too, but getting called nasty and having my profile pic slammed also angered me. And that is funny cause I hardly ever get angry. The reason for the profile pic is that it is one of my hubby's favorite cause he took me to the concert as a Valentine's present cause Bon Jovi is my favorite, and I was beyond excited. The shaka? I live Hawaii of course there will be a shaka..
As for Denise Tra, she is more than welcome to join any journal with her "advise" but to call something perverted because if goes against what she preaches is just too much and I will continue to call her on it...
Bottom line is we are all here for a common goal and that is to lose weight and become healthy. We also have some strong personalities and there are going to be conflicts, it is unavoidable...I appreciate most comments that are trying to help, but if all you can do is preach a book and tell me I am wrong, then you are NOT helping at all..
Adrianne, you rock Smile
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
elfprincess

Joined: Nov 09
Posts: 39

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 17:57
oh dear me no.

that last post sounds like a 'plant' promoting a commercial diet enterprise...

stick with low carbing folks, through the ups and downs. I am stalled too but low carbing has helped me keep off 141 lost pounds. I am close to goal and won't give up for love nor money, now, no matter how long it takes to lose the rest.

BCLenny

Joined: Nov 09
Posts: 543

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 18:18
Hi Elfprincess, Just trying to understand your post. You said the last post sounds like a "plant" not sure what you meant?
" I promised my heart I would.. "
theewhoshops

Joined: Jun 09
Posts: 145

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 18:23
Bamalane- I am open to anyone's suggestions, I just prefer it to be in kindness. I need suggestions and that's why I joined this group.
I appreciate your words of encouragement. Thank you. Smile



rjenkins27

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 830

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 18:44
I have a question about Atkins. I looked at several people's profiles that list Atkins as their diet. For those who appear to log everything they eat (due to the quantity of items listed - looks pretty thorough), they seems to be below their daily caloric intake value consistently.

Is it possible that those who are successful with Atkins are in fact on a low calorie diet due to the fact that they don't eat as much due to being satiated with high fat/high protein?

I am in no way trying to disparage Atkins - to each their own. There are those who have been very successful with Atkins. Also, I recall a study that showed that Atkins adherents actually lowered their cholesterol when all of the health experts were saying how bad the diet was because of the high fat. I love it when "experts" are proven wrong.

Just trying to understand.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department
Fit-Kat

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 60

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:02
rjenkins: Success on Atkins evolves around ketosis, i.e., burning fat for fuel vs carbs/sugar. As far as the total calorie count, you could be right, but I haven't personally formed that opinion yet. (I'm still experimenting with tweaking Atkins to work well for me.) But, if you rely on the Atkins Nutritional Approach, it will inform you that there is no need to count calories, just carbs. This is not a license to over-eat & consume massive calories, however.

Now... to the rest of you who get on a forum & wage battles against one another: Shame on you! That is the behavior that ruins good forums. It is the reason I will get disgusted & not read any of the forums for long periods also. To the angry drama queens that feel a need to post rude or combative comments on a forum where someone is seeking advice or support, grow up! I'm sick of it too. NOBODY enjoys reading that garbage. If you're not happy with what someone says, why don't you just send each other your nasty messages via the messenger & leave everyone else free of having to read the childish B.S. Thank you.
carbcount

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 772

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:06
rj, My RDI or caloric intake is at 2000 calories per day. I dont' know how to reset it or change it. It goes on what it thinks it should be based on your lifestyle I think. If I go by my weight x 11 - 500, I should be eating 1500 calories a day to lose weight. Cannot remember where I got that formula but works for me. I try to keep as close to 1500 calories as I can. This is a lot more calories than I ever used to eat when I tried to starve on salads and carbs. Funny how I could eat nothing but salads and gain weight..the joys of being carb sensitive. So no I am definitely NOT on a low calorie diet especially when you consider than I used to eat 800 to 1000 calories a day and gain weight LOL
As to the experts, you are so right...when I started this my cholesterol was 202, now it is 174....my doctors says "keep it up"
Not sure if that answers your question or not..
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
Fit-Kat

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 60

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:10
Click on "My FatSecret" above, then in the sidebar under "My Toolbox", click on "My Diet". You will find the link to change your RDI to whatever number you think it really should be. (I also have mine set at 1500. I don't know if that's what it should be or not, but that's what I decided to start with.)
rjenkins27

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 830

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:21
I assume that if I'm burning more calories than I'm taking in, combined with increasing muscle mass, I must be burning fat by counting calories. My fancy fat analysis scale says I am (even though I know it is not exact).

I was just wondering if it was possible on Atkins to eat 4000+ calories per day of high fat/high protein with restricted carbs and still lose weight.

If the answer is yes, I'm not in a position to switch what I'm doing. It's working just fine for me. I might point out that everyone on this thread that is accomplishing their goal is also doing fine.

I was just wondering what the benefits of Atkins is if it still involves calories in/calories out (carb sensitivity notwithstanding). Thanks for the feedback.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department
Fit-Kat

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 60

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:30
I don't think anyone could lose weight consuming far too many calories. (4,000 would certainly be extremely high for most people, I suspect.) The point of 'not counting calories' simply means not to obsess about calories. With that said, you still need to stop eating when your hunger has been satisfied & not over-eat. But...we do get to eat any time we are hungry, which is unlike a simple calorie counting diet which usually leaves people feeling hungry. In addition, we are converting our metabolism to a fat-burning metabolism, vs a carb-burning metabolism.
rjenkins27

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 830

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:55
I see little difference in counting calories or counting carbs (net or otherwise) because they are both a hassle. I am seldom hungry with what I'm doing, and when I do get hungry, it is usually just before I'm scheduled to eat anyway.

I've just been reading the stuff on the adkins site. It makes sense based on how they are presenting it. I can see how it would appeal to some people. My lifestyle doesn't lend itself to atkins, but that doesn't make it valid for those who find it easier or better than what I'm doing.

I might find it more appealing if I could eat 4000 calories per day and still lose/maintain weight Smile.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department
carbcount

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 772

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 19:59
thanks fit-kat...never could figure out how to change it Smile
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
mahara

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 147

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 20:11
One of the benefits of Atkins is the quality of food you get to eat.
Counting Calories is really not needed as most are satiated by the foods that we eat to stay in resonable ranges of calories. So usually I am not hungry, and tend not to overeat.
It is recommended that a women on Atkins stay within a 1500-2000 RDI.
I like having whole fat cheeses, real butter, cream, red meats and things like that as well as salads with real blue cheese dressing, and all kinds of vegetables! That makes it a diet I can live with for life...Everything I eat tastes really GOOD!
People who've have a hard time losing on a low calorie diet, have found that they can up thier calories considerably, and still lose weight with Atkins.
Watching carbs instead of calories.
Eating too few calories on this diet can also cause a weight loss stall, as your metabolism slows down with too few calories as well.

The bottom line is what works for you as a "life style", not a diet.
Fit-Kat

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 60

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Posted: 07 Mar 2010, 23:26
adrianna123 wrote:
I am totally out of ketosis


I tested negative this morning also. However, this evening I tested high (about 80 - purple). So, don't fret it. It can change quickly & you can be back in ketosis in no time.
rjenkins27

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 830

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Posted: 08 Mar 2010, 07:40
mahara - I agree with you, especially the "bottom line", but I also eat whatever I want, but due to the calorie restrictions, I have to limit the high fat/high calorie items so the calories don't go overboard. I think I've had 1/2 a hamburger since I started because I just couldn't justify the calories vs. what else I could have for the same amount of calories. If I wanted a double cheeseburger bad enough, I would eat it, but then I would have to limit calories elsewhere. To be honest, the cheeseburger just isn't worth it. It never was.

This self-imposed restriction has reduced my fat consumption and increased my fruits/vegetables considerably. Long term, I cannot see how this is not healthy for me (especially compared to how I ate before - whatever and whenever I wanted).

The side benefit is the enormous education I'm getting about food that I plan on using for the rest of my life.

I agree that my plan wouldn't work for everyone, but it appears that all "diets" come with restrictions, whether carbs, calories, or "nothing but cabbage soup". I guess it comes down to what are we most comfortable restricting and what do we think is best for long term health.

I have come to the conclusion that my prescription for health doesn't come in pill form. I have two prescriptions - things I cannot do (overeat and consume very much calorie dense foods) and things I must do (exercise and build lean muscle).

I accept that my "disease" is chronic and I must follow the prescription for the rest of my life. As depressing as this sounds on the surface, the side benefits more than make up for it.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, it isn't meant to be. Just passed my mid-weigh point (get it, mid "weigh"Wink to goal and am kind of pumped.

I work for the Department of Redundancy Department



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