Is Obesity a Disease? NPR

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mrspackrat

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 547

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Posted: 11 Jul 2014, 09:29
Is it possible that in Sweden they consumed more animal fat when it's the unsaturated fats (monounsaturated or omega 3 fats) that you should be consuming more of. The western diet gets plenty of saturated fats and unfortunately way too much in trans fats.
this damn tracker below hasn't been right in months! My current weight is 137!
drullae

Joined: Jul 14
Posts: 5

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Posted: 11 Jul 2014, 10:15
it is not only about peoples choices but about the advice that is avalable to people to help them lose weight. 4 years ago i went to dr to see about losing weight/the best healthiest way without fad diets. i was advised to eat low-fat foods and count calories. i now know that in the last 4 i have shovelled in more sugar/fruit sugars and aspartame (yuk) than ever before because i ate LOW-FAT food alternatives. has anybody ever read a weight-watchers ingredient list!! is horrendous
i dug deep on internet and found Realfood/high fat/primal/paleo (whatever title you pick!). now i eat well and feel good as well
corifeo

Joined: Nov 13
Posts: 231

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Posted: 11 Jul 2014, 10:21
MV10 wrote:
Yeah I knew somebody would bring that up. Corifeo, when I was recently told I was pre-diabetic and Atkins was recommended to me, I did this dance with a good friend who is a PhD research scientist. He finished his PhD at Wauseda in Japan, so that was his first response too. He only consider numbers, so this is a quick summary of what we found.

What you describe is the well-known "Asian paradox" -- and what's amusing about it is that pretty much every diet has a shopping list of "paradoxes" that contravene the thinking behind the diet (though this seems to be the only legitimate one anyone can find with regards to low carb). In other words, you can find articles and stories to support just about anything you want to believe.
"

Notice you did not talk about Sweden…

You may be able to find stories but not medical or scientific journals with corresponding statistical numbers. The only people who call it the Asian paradox are people from two particular diets, the rest of us just call it most of the world…


MV10 wrote:
Incidentally, the way you process carbs is based on the expression of several specific genes, and Asians have a surefit of these genes, whereas Westerners generally do not. (The physician-oriented book, Art & Science of Atkins, is a good read if you're into the biochem side of things.)



Really still in your bubble… I hope you do notice that this is circular reasoning.


MV10 wrote:
That being said, diabetes and obesity is sharply on the rise in both China and India, with some studies I have read reporting diabetes incidences in China approaching 44%. They are also 10X more likely to suffer heart attacks than Westerners, though there are many possible explanations depending on your opinions about the causes of atherosclerosis and similar issues. Japan is about the only major Asian exception, supposedly at only about 3%, though that is a self-reported number, and WHO has put it at more like 25% in some reports.



All those number and no evidence but if all your numbers are as good as the ones about japan and Who.

Who does not have then at 25% Who has Japan at 4.5% for both sexes.

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A900


MV10 wrote:
No it isn't cut and dry, but bottom line, you don't need to eat carbs. There is no documented medical condition associated with inadequate dietary carbs, and yet there are recommendations that we eat hundreds of grams of this junk every single day. I eat about 10 to 20 grams most days, I eat more often and larger meals, I feel better -- tell me again why that's a bad thing?
[/quote]


First you start of by saying that the US would be better off by doing X, I show you an example of the only country doing X and how this has not fix their problem. And you come back with a Negative Assertion, this is the problem with your side you have already made up your mind you spend most of you time talking with people that also agree with you. It’s almost like a religion.

You can have whatever diet you want, the human body is if anything adaptable.

Let me show what happens when people eat this junk like you call it but also don’t eat almost any fat.
It has been documented that diabetes and heart attacks were all but entirely absent in the traditional living Bedouins. Less than 5% of their caloric daily need comes from fat.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/14/1/37.full.pdf+html
MV10

Joined: Jun 14
Posts: 26

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Posted: 11 Jul 2014, 12:56
Sorry, I don't really do the cut-and-paste line-by-line internet argument thing. Just voicing my opinion and telling you what I've read. If you don't like it, skip it.

Good luck with whatever plan you're on. Low carb is working wonders for me.
wholefoodnut

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 912

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Posted: 12 Jul 2014, 08:00
Just walk through a supermarket and see what is on most of the "food" shelves, frigs, and freezers. They stock what sells. Whole, healthy foods have no or little advertising. Here at least the fresh fruit and vegetable sections have become larger and have more choices. When I moved to Kansas City in 1978 I could not buy fresh spinach or broccoli and only a few stores sold mushrooms, people thought they only "came" in a can or frozen.

Enjoy the summer and the sunshine.

Jeri
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,042

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Posted: 12 Jul 2014, 08:11
MV10 wrote:
Sorry, I don't really do the cut-and-paste line-by-line internet argument thing. Just voicing my opinion and telling you what I've read. If you don't like it, skip it.

Good luck with whatever plan you're on. Low carb is working wonders for me.


Completely agree... you can always find some study done by whomever that agrees with your opinion. I don't have the time or the desire to break down everyone's thoughts and post accordingly.

I like to keep it simple.. I am my own best 'scientific' study on what works for me.

I'm a low carber and can't eat grains, not gluten intolerant just found that grains bloat me and make me gain weight. So I go against the CICO crowd... when I include grains in my 1200 cal a day diet , I gain... oh myShock remove the grains and I maintain.. so CICO is out the door for me.

I love my meat and veggies so that's what I go with each to his own... now if I could only find a scientifically backed study to quote here....Rolling Eyes
trackin64

Joined: Dec 13
Posts: 8

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Posted: 12 Jul 2014, 10:19
It's interesting that the low fat recommendation did not have any scientific basis to back it up. And it doesn't even make sense that eating cholesterol will send it straight to your bloodstream!
corifeo

Joined: Nov 13
Posts: 231

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Posted: 12 Jul 2014, 14:16
Really no scientific basis to back it up… The level of dishonesty in that statement.

Don’t worry about find a scientific studys mummydee… I have no doubt that using anecdotal evidence is all you need.

For example sugar intake was observed to be modestly high, a trait comparable to that of the populations in Colombia, Cuba and Venezuela who have traditionally had among the highest rates of per capita sugar consumption in the world and low rates of coronary heart disease mortality.

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/pdg66b00/pdf

It has been documented that diabetes and heart attacks were all but entirely absent in the traditional living Bedouins

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/14/1/37.full.pdf+html

include the Arab Bedouins and Yemenite Jews, both of which traditionally consumed on average more than 500 grams of bread per day. These populations are known for their exceptionally low rates of coronary heart disease and obesity when following their traditional wheat based diet.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/20/2/191.full.pdf+html

Am not against low carb diet or for a high card diet. I really just don’t like dishonesty and propaganda.


JessWhatINee...

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 273

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Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 08:21
mummydee wrote:
I'm a low carber and can't eat grains, not gluten intolerant just found that grains bloat me and make me gain weight. So I go against the CICO crowd... when I include grains in my 1200 cal a day diet , I gain... oh myShock remove the grains and I maintain.. so CICO is out the door for me.


When you're on a low/no carb diet your body depletes it glycogen stores. Each gram of glycogen keeps bound up with it 3-4 grams of water. So yes, when you cut out carbs you see this massive, easy weight loss immediately, get super excited about how this must be the key to weightloss, you're finally making progress losing 5-7 lbs in one week is fabulous!....but MOST of it is water. Guess what happens when you eat carbs again? Your glycogen stores are replenished, and the water that is stored with them as well. Which makes you think "Carbs make me gain weight! I ate one pancake and look I gained 5-7 lbs. They are evil and I can't eat them" So you cut carbs again, and see the water weight loss and you think it is confirmation that carbs are making you fat.
You're gaining and losing water at first, and any sudden ups or downs are just water. Your lowcarb weight is artificially lower than if you ate regular amounts of carbs, but the rate at which you gain/lose/maintain is determined by caloric deficit.
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,042

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Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 09:17
That sounds correct for the most part but i've been doing low carb, or lets just say I only consume complex carbs for many years. Over those years I have learned that grains bother me.

I did a little experiment a few years back. I kept in my regular 1200 cal. a day but added in a bit of pasta, bread and other whole grains here and there.. over 3 months I gained 15 lbs. I stopped and lost the weight still eating 1200 calories a day but no grains, pasta, rice of any kind.

Now that its growing season here in Ontario, I eat a ton more than I do thru the winter, of veggies and fruits pushing up both my carb count and my calorie count but am still maintaining my weight. Some days I can hit 1600 - 1800 calories and I still don't gain.

This is why I will never believe its as simple as CICO.. What you put in your body is just as important (if not more so) than how much. JMHO

gnat824

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 1,667

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Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 10:01
Interesting discussion here. I can see a definite downside in classifying it as a disease because people consider a "disease" to be something that you fix by throwing medical treatments at it. I don't agree with the philosophy that the answer to everything is a pill or operation, but that seems to be the way we see it, which is reinforced by the medical industrial complex- there's not much money in telling people that physical activity may relieve their back pain, for example.

On the other side, though, there is definitely a genetic component to obesity. This does not mean that you just resign yourself to being obese any more than you'd resign yourself to being an alcoholic. But I think it does help to explain why some people can maintain a healthy weight naturally while others have to constantly work on it (again, lifestyle choices are the biggest driver here but genetics do make a difference.)

I think the bottom line for me is that a lot of our obesity issues are caused by the food we eat. Around the world, there is a clear pattern of the obesity epidemic emerging as people adopt the standard american diet. As a calorie counter, I believe that CICO works, but the number is not the only factor and food quality absolutely matters. If obesity is a disease, it's one that we would control pretty quickly if we got away from the food products and relied more on food (to borrow Hoser's phrasing).
- Natalie



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