Thermodynamics? Not really...

52 PAGES
first ... 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 next ... last
previous topic · next topic
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:39
RavenSoul69 wrote:
Darin, I salt all my steaks heavily with kosher salt and then let rest @ 1 hour per inch of steak (so a steak 1.25 inches thick would sit, salted, for 1 hour, 15 minutes, etc). Then I rinse them, pat them super-dry, and sear them medium rare. Makes them tender like buttah, no matter how cheap the cut.


!!!

You read this blog post too? Or self-discovery or somewhere else?

http://www.steamykitchen.com/163-how-to-turn-cheap-choice-steaks-into-gucci-prime-steaks.html

This technique has saved me a ton of money and made my steaks consistently tender. Before I read that article I'd sworn off ever buying Select grade meats, particularly at Walmart, because they were always so tough they were impossible to enjoy grilled.

I do Choice and Select with the salt thing Smile
Mary in LA

Joined: Apr 09
Posts: 27

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:43
Would some salt other than our friendly neighborhood sodium chloride (table salt) work to tenderize a steak in the same way? One of my dearest friends is highly sensitive to sodium in any form (table salt, baking soda, baking powder, MSG, etc.), so if this trick would work with potassium chloride, which seems to be the most common salt substitute, or with some other salt, I'd love to try it when she comes to dinner.


Thanks, reddarin, for hosting this wonderful thread!


reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:44
micki13 wrote:
On a more practical note, cool, it doesn't make it turn salty, I'll give it a go so!


Salty taste is such an individual experience so be sure you experiment a few times.

I did it with a thinner steak and left the salt on too long and that sucker was salty as heck.

But otherwise, I still detect a saltier experience than a steak not prepared that way. Not like a salt lick but not like a control steak would taste if that makes sense.
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,063

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:45
onedaat,, where do you get raw milk, In Ontario it is illegal to sell and a farm friend of mine says it's too risky (getting caught, not the milk) to give it away..
onedaat

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 326

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:51
Darin, a grocery store had a select grade ribeye roast for sale a while back and I was able to make some incredibly tender steaks by refrigerator dry aging and dry brining. (The dry aging process works much better with larger cuts of meat.) You salt it well with your favorite mix of salt, herbs and spices then place the meat on a cookie rack placed on a lipped cookie sheet. Put it in the refrigerator uncovered and allow it to rest for 1-2 weeks. Trim off any dried bits then slice into steaks. The enzymes inside the meat work to tenderize the protein strands and the salt and chill keeps any baddies at bay.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/01/the-food-lab-dry-age-beef-at-home.html

http://www.cooksillustrated.com/howto/login.asp?docid=23239

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/dry-aged-chimney-porterhouse-recipe/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"It is in vain to speak of cures, or think of remedies, until such time as we have considered the causes . . . cures must be imperfect, lame, and to no purpose, wherein the causes have not first been searched.”

- Robert Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. - Mark Twain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
onedaat

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 326

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 11:57
mummydee wrote:
onedaat,, where do you get raw milk, In Ontario it is illegal to sell and a farm friend of mine says it's too risky (getting caught, not the milk) to give it away..


I have a friend who runs a goat farm and I get it from her. If anyone asks it's for my pets. I haven't been drinking it lately since I'm rebooting my keto diet. It's incredibly delicious and makes the most amazing homemade mozzarella. (It's nearly impossible to make mozzarella with store bought milk these days since more and more manufacturers are switching to high heat pasteurization.) It's too bad it's not easier to access. I suspect a lot of the problems associated with contaminated raw milk has to do with people needing to travel great distances to get it. In France they actually have raw milk vending machines.


Raw Milk From A French Vending Machine


Harvard hosted an interesting debate on the topic which featured Sally Fallon author of Nourishing Traditions and one of my favorite food/health/nutrition writers. Here it is if anyone is interested, they do good job of representing boths sides of the issue. Raw Milk Debate - February 16, 2012 Harvard Food Law Society hosted a debate on the legal, nutritional, and safety aspects of raw milk.
For more information about the Food Law Society, including each of the presenters' powerpoints go to www.foodsoc.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"It is in vain to speak of cures, or think of remedies, until such time as we have considered the causes . . . cures must be imperfect, lame, and to no purpose, wherein the causes have not first been searched.”

- Robert Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. - Mark Twain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
micki13

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 153

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 12:02
Mary in LA wrote:
Would some salt other than our friendly neighborhood sodium chloride (table salt) work to tenderize a steak in the same way? One of my dearest friends is highly sensitive to sodium in any form (table salt, baking soda, baking powder, MSG, etc.), so if this trick would work with potassium chloride, which seems to be the most common salt substitute, or with some other salt, I'd love to try it when she comes to dinner.


Thanks, reddarin, for hosting this wonderful thread!





Hey Mary, as RavenSoul mentioned, it's osmosis! So any salt should work fine.
micki13

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 153

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 12:06
reddarin wrote:
micki13 wrote:
On a more practical note, cool, it doesn't make it turn salty, I'll give it a go so!


Salty taste is such an individual experience so be sure you experiment a few times.

I did it with a thinner steak and left the salt on too long and that sucker was salty as heck.

But otherwise, I still detect a saltier experience than a steak not prepared that way. Not like a salt lick but not like a control steak would taste if that makes sense.


ah, yes, I know what you mean. I don't like salting my aubergines because it makes it taste too salty for me, even though it probably isn't, to normal people. I give it a go, anyway, and just put on a little less and see what happens.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 12:54
Mary in LA wrote:
Thanks, reddarin, for hosting this wonderful thread!


Smile
RavenSoul69

Joined: Feb 13
Posts: 186

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 14:40
Mary in LA wrote:
Would some salt other than our friendly neighborhood sodium chloride (table salt) work to tenderize a steak in the same way? One of my dearest friends is highly sensitive to sodium in any form (table salt, baking soda, baking powder, MSG, etc.), so if this trick would work with potassium chloride, which seems to be the most common salt substitute, or with some other salt, I'd love to try it when she comes to dinner.


Thanks, reddarin, for hosting this wonderful thread!




ARGH, everyone, please do NOT USE table salt if you're going to do this method! It must be KOSHER salt, or course sea salt.

The tiny granules of table salt will not produce the desired effect. And...table salt tastes like crud.

The meat, itself, doesn't absorb much sodium (I'm on a lower sodium way of eating, also). The salt causes a reaction to happen (refer to Micki13's wonderful, scientific explanation a few posts ago!) to cause the tenderizing. Also, I'm guessing that potassium chloride wouldn't lend any kind of good taste to tbe meat...

BUT, if your friend is highly sensitive to sodium in any form I wouldn't risk it! Just buckle down and get her the expensive cut! Wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking. ~~Buddhist proverb

Absorb what is useful,
Discard what is not,
Add what is uniquely your own.
~~Bruce Lee

You don't drown by falling in the water...you drown by staying there.

There are only two options: make progress or make excuses.

RavenSoul69

Joined: Feb 13
Posts: 186

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 14:42
micki13 wrote:
reddarin wrote:
micki13 wrote:
On a more practical note, cool, it doesn't make it turn salty, I'll give it a go so!


Salty taste is such an individual experience so be sure you experiment a few times.

I did it with a thinner steak and left the salt on too long and that sucker was salty as heck.

But otherwise, I still detect a saltier experience than a steak not prepared that way. Not like a salt lick but not like a control steak would taste if that makes sense.


ah, yes, I know what you mean. I don't like salting my aubergines because it makes it taste too salty for me, even though it probably isn't, to normal people. I give it a go, anyway, and just put on a little less and see what happens.


Micki, are you using table salt on them...or kosher salt, or course sea salt? Table salt makes them taste nasty-salty!


~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking. ~~Buddhist proverb

Absorb what is useful,
Discard what is not,
Add what is uniquely your own.
~~Bruce Lee

You don't drown by falling in the water...you drown by staying there.

There are only two options: make progress or make excuses.

reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 15:14
I have only used kosher salt. That 3lb box of Morton goes a long way.
Clueless101

Joined: May 13
Posts: 254

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 16:14
onedaat wrote:
Alton Brown of Good Eats explains the raw egg mayo thing better than me. From the episode Mayo Clinic (which features a delicious chili oil mayo recipe.)

Quote:
And there we have it. Ah, good body, nice cling, and the flavor, mm, just try to get that out of a jar. But it does fit in a jar. Now I usually cover my fresh mayo and leave it at room temperature for 4 to 8 hours. [camera does a double-take on the jar] Now take it easy. Take it easy. I know. Leaving raw eggs in this zone sounds like crazy talk. But here's the thing. There's a small, tiny, infinitesimal, little chance that, uh, that egg yolk was contaminated with salmonella. Now the cold of the refrigerator would prevent that salmonella from breeding but it will not actually kill it. Acid, on the hand, will. And with a pH of, wow, 3.6 this is a decidedly acidic environment. But for reasons that still have lab-coaters scratching their heads, acid does its best bug killing at room temperature. So leaving this out for 8, 10, even 12 hours is sound sanitation. After that, straight to the refrigerator for no more than a week. You can even put it in the door.



http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/season4/mayo/mayonnaisetranscript.htm


Here is the episode on Youtube if you want to see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMx7aeU3cKk


Thanks for that Post onedatt. I have been making bacon grease mayo for a good while. I had wondered about the raw eggs. That is a great description. of how to prevent salmonella
micki13

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 153

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 16:25
RavenSoul,i use coarse sea salt or coarse rock salt,if i use it at all.i don't have kosher salt and i doubt i can get it,i live in Ireland,i don't think its really available here.i will give it a go with the coarse sea salt so.thanks RavenSoul! Smile
Mary in LA

Joined: Apr 09
Posts: 27

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 19:22
@RavenSoul: Thanks for the clarification of table salt vs. kosher salt. I was figuring they're chemically the same, but you're right, they behave differently. And of course table salt is usually iodized, so there's that difference, too.


Quote:
BUT, if your friend is highly sensitive to sodium in any form I wouldn't risk it! Just buckle down and get her the expensive cut! Wink


Fair enough -- I will splurge when my friend comes over, or fix something else entirely. Usually I eat very cheaply (not badly, but cheaply), so I don't always think of splurging when I'm cooking at home. In this case, it's entirely appropriate! Wink
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 19:50
You might still be able to use an inexpensive cut of meat that is low sodium by tweaking this Pioneer Woman recipe:

http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2009/01/steak-bites/
onedaat

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 326

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 20:27
Clueless101 wrote:
Thanks for that Post onedatt. I have been making bacon grease mayo for a good while. I had wondered about the raw eggs. That is a great description. of how to prevent salmonella



Here is some more information about the science behind the idea.

Quote:
There has been thorough scientific research done on this question. The main problem with Alton Brown's recommendation is that his room temperature "rest" is not long enough, since the scientific literature recommends 24-72 hours at room temperature, depending on acid concentration.

The most common acids used in mayonnaise recipes are acetic acid (vinegar) and citric acid (lemon juice). Vinegar is more effective at killing bacteria, but either can be used. Both acids are less effective at refrigerator temperatures than at room temperature.

For a general review of the literature, as well as specific advice on lemon juice (along with lab results), see this article.The fate of Salmonella enteritidis PT4 in home-made mayonnaise prepared with citric acid The take-home message, which you can see from the data (Table 1 in the link), is that the only successful sterilization of the mayonnaise that eliminated Salmonella bacteria occurred with at least 24 hours at room temperature with reasonable amounts of lemon juice.



The authors determined that the minimum quantity of lemon juice necessary to achieve this result was 20 milliliters (about 4 tsp) per egg yolk for 72 hours at room temperature, or 35 milliliters (about 7 tsp) per egg yolk for 48 hours.

Room temperature was necessary for sterilization: even after a week, all samples stored at refrigerated temperatures still tested positive for Salmonella, even with a high acid content. On the other hand, after a week, no samples at room temperature tested positive, even those that contained only 10 milliliters (2 tsp) of lemon juice.

A previous study The influence of pH and temperature on the behaviour of Salmonella enteritidis phage type 4 in home-made mayonnaise concluded that vinegar was also effective (and more effective than lemon juice). Subsequent studies have indicated a dose of at least 20 milliliters (about 4 tsp) of standard white wine vinegar should be effective at 24 hours at room temperature -- though 72 hours was recommended if possible.

Other studies Fate of pathogens in home-made mayonnaise and related products and Effects of yellow mustard powder on microbial population, pH and organoleptic properties of mayonnaisehave shown that the addition of garlic and/or mustard will increase the sterilization effect, while salt inhibits it. The type of oil also matters: as documented here; The influence of acidulants and oils on autosterilization of home-made mayonnaise "olive oil with garlic or basil showed the fastest rate of death, followed by soya, grapeseed, rapeseed, groundnut, sunflower, hazelnut and a blended olive oil."

It must be emphasized that all of these studies, without exception, recommend 24 hours at room temperature MINIMUM for effective killing of bacteria.

Before concluding, I suppose I have to address the mistaken assumption that mayonnaise is unsafe at room temperature in general. It is well-known among food safety experts that commercially prepared mayonnaise is perfectly safe at room temperature (for example, see the quotations at the end of this helpful brochure). The acidic environment and previous processing stages are plenty to keep mayonnaise safe -- you refrigerate mayo to keep it fresh longer, not because it is unsafe at room temperature.

In fact, adding sufficient quantities of mayonnaise to meat-based dishes like chicken salad or ham salad can actually slow growth and even kill Salmonella UGA Scientists Find Mayonnaise
Makes Meat Salads Safer
and E. coli on the meat and thus make the dishes safer. In the linked study, meat salads with mayonnaise held at room temperature for five hours had very little growth of Salmonella, compared to what would be expected without mayonnaise. Note that refrigeration in such cases is still recommended, since the meat pieces can still spoil at room temp and the acidic sterilizing effect of mayonnaise is somewhat diluted when mixed with other things. (Mayonnaise--along with any liquid or semisolid food--when handled improperly around contaminated food, can lead to cross-contamination of bacteria in mixtures that dilute its sterilizing effect. But that's not a property unique to mayonnaise at all.)

In the past, homemade mayonnaise did not have the necessary processing to render it safe, which is the impetus behind the many studies I've cited here. These studies show what you need to do to make it safe. After 24-72 hours (depending on factors listed above), the homemade mayonnaise can be safely refrigerated to maintain its quality for longer than storage at room temperature.

[EDIT: One additional corollary to the research above is that homemade mayonnaise is actually the most dangerous when it is fresh. I've occasionally heard people say, "I make homemade mayo, but I always use it right away, so it's safer." In reality, as discussed in the linked articles, the acid will stop Salmonella from further growth and eventually cause it to die off in undiluted mayonnaise, even with significantly less acid than the recommended quantities. Most egg-based food poisoning is caused by contamination from the shell, where Salmonella bacteria is commonly found and will grow once it comes in contact with a liquid medium. This requires time, so fresh egg dishes are generally safer. (Note that in the U.S., unlike almost everywhere else in the world, eggs are washed and their exteriors are disinfected, so Salmonella infection from egg shells is much rarer.) With mayonnaise, though, the growth of small numbers of shell bacteria accidentally introduced into the mixture is inhibited by the acidic conditions. Instead, the concern is the much smaller number of eggs (estimates usually say about 1 in 20,000) where Salmonella is present in the interior of the egg, and the liquid medium may already contain a high enough population of bacteria to make someone sick. Those rare types of eggs will make you sick even when eaten fresh, which is the reason some restaurants have warnings about sunny-side eggs or runny omelets. The average person will only encounter one of these internally infected eggs a few times in his/her lifetime, so the risk is pretty small. But considering that thousands of people probably make homemade mayonnaise worldwide every day, these rare eggs will still occasionally cause sickness. While the acidic recommendations above are well-researched, I personally would still use pasteurized eggs in making homemade mayonnaise for children, elderly people, pregnant women, big parties, etc. On the other hand, if you eat (cooked) runny egg yolks on a regular basis, you shouldn't be concerned about mayonnaise, which actually has a lower risk if it sits for any period of time.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"It is in vain to speak of cures, or think of remedies, until such time as we have considered the causes . . . cures must be imperfect, lame, and to no purpose, wherein the causes have not first been searched.”

- Robert Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. - Mark Twain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

      quote  
Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 21:43
I will admit that homemade mayonnaise seems to be immortal, which is surprising when I hear that it spoils and should not be used after a few days to a week. I rarely find anything growing in it. Though I do throw it away if I can't remember how old it is.

I have heard that the problem of salmonella and eggs is much worse in restaurants, where eggs are often kept out of the refrigerator in a warm place for hours during meal preparation.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 13:47
Coming up later... another Wheat Belly rebuttal rebuttal Smile
RavenSoul69

Joined: Feb 13
Posts: 186

      quote  
Posted: 31 Jul 2013, 13:57
Just doing a run-by posting to say:

1) I'm gonna make that bacon grease mayo recipe, as soon as I replace my hand blender, darn it! Smile

and

2) HUGE THANK YOU to those who suggested the mayo/kimchi combination! Had it with garlic chicken last night...it's now my new obsession! Very Happy


~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking. ~~Buddhist proverb

Absorb what is useful,
Discard what is not,
Add what is uniquely your own.
~~Bruce Lee

You don't drown by falling in the water...you drown by staying there.

There are only two options: make progress or make excuses.




Forum Search
Advanced forum search



Latest Posts

belly fat
Wholefoodnut, You are so right that strength training helps with body pains. When I went to my doctor about having back pain, the first thing she suggested was back exercises. I thought she was crazy! ...
by ChristyLA on 30 Jul 14 06:58 AM
Going on "A" diet.....
I agree, it is definetly in the calories you take in vs the amount you burn. So a "diet" is not healthy, I think it is more about your game plan to allow your body to burn the calories you eat, ...
by Kathy Smith on 30 Jul 14 12:07 AM
Welcome
Welcome! That's great. I've told a bunch of people about FS but not sure anyone has come up here as a result!
by Draglist on 29 Jul 14 08:18 PM
Dislike the gym? An alternative
I love walking too, but i don't really favour the social stuff. I walk for fun and as my part of my daily commute. It really is the best type of exercise. I paid for a year at a gym early in my diet ...
by JasminEmerald on 29 Jul 14 06:42 PM
Sugar free redbull
It's one of those things that people apply the word "moderation" to. Energy drinks aren't really "good" for you. But if you have no heart abnormalities, you count the kJ/cals ...
by JasminEmerald on 29 Jul 14 06:34 PM