Thermodynamics? Not really...

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ClassicRocke...

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 931

      quote  
Posted: 18 Jul 2013, 14:43
I'm with you mummy. No matter what any of us say, it would cause contention and conflict. My quoting of an old statement caused a stir. Very obvious no matter what anyone says that is not in agreement with those who CICO, we will be pegged as being wrong and ignorant. Thus, time to say "good night and good bye" and shut this thread down.

But of course, one of our trolls will slam my post. Have at it and have a ciggie when done.

We are simply asking everyone to open your eyes and understand we are all different. The same rules do not apply to everyone equally. If they did, what a boring world this world would be.



Goal: 160 by 5/1/2014--Okay... I didn't make it. Such is life.
155 or less by 9/1/2014

May I be free to be the me that I came into this world to be.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 18 Jul 2013, 15:47
Tyranny, like hades, is not easily conquered.
--Thomas Paine

Smile
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,055

      quote  
Posted: 18 Jul 2013, 16:43
http://www.upworthy.com/being-told-to-eat-healthy-is-meaningless-if-you-cant-compare-foods-heres-a-good-method-3?c=upw1
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 01:31
reddarin wrote:
[quote=mummydee]The cool thing is that since going LC and wheat-free I almost never get colds any more.


Oh, it has nothing to do with losing fat and getting healthier. Nope, it's definitely the wheat and or LC. Delusional till the end.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 01:42
mmoodd69 wrote:
riocaz wrote:
Sounds like people on both "sides" of this thread.


One big difference you're ignoring or are unaware of.

No low carb dieter here has ever said LC is THE diet for everyone, or that everyone needs it. Not one of us said or believes that. Not one of us said CICO never, ever works for anybody. Some people claim it does; I believe them. Great. It just doesn't work for me or for many others.

However, SEVERAL of the CICO folks (and their back-from-the-banned-dead zombie sockpuppets) keep insisting that LC is unhealthy, unsustainable and just plain wrong FOR EVERYONE because CICO will work for ANYONE, ALWAYS AND FOREVER. They have not budged one inch on that, despite repeated personal testimonies and medical evidence to the contrary.

So which side is more fanatical?



Where is anyone pushing their diet onto people? You say CICO as if LC ISN'T CICO. ALL diets involve a calorie balance. No diet is above calories in vs. calories out. There is more to health than CICO but not to total bodyweight. Unless you're undergoing regular liposuction, you're eating LESS calories than your body needs to maintain if you're losing fat.

The fact that you think they are separate things, shows how little you truly know about nutrition.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 01:52
Here is a scenario for you people since you think LC makes our body burn extra calories. Should we be sending all of our processed carbs over to Africa instead of meats and cheeses? I mean obviously starchy carbs will make them gain life saving fat so we should right? Meat and cheese will only speed their metabolism. HAhaha, that is how ridiculous this idea of LC making us burn more calories sounds to many of us. It really makes zero commone sense.

This reminds me of people thinking that eating "clean" will make you lose fat faster. Smile
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 06:46
mummydee wrote:
Can anyone agree, from both sides, that we are human beings and as such we are all different?


Well I did, just a few posts back. It's what I've always said.

No one from 'the other side' will, though. Go ahead, ask them point blank and see what they say.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 07:05
If LC works by restricting calories, and it makes no difference how a dieter restricts those calories, then why are the CICO fans so opposed to it? Being right for the wrong reason is still being right.
ClassicRocke...

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 931

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 08:54
My smile for the day. Thank you eKatherine.



Goal: 160 by 5/1/2014--Okay... I didn't make it. Such is life.
155 or less by 9/1/2014

May I be free to be the me that I came into this world to be.
riocaz

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 654

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 09:13
I may have missed it. But when has anyone said they "oppose LC"?

Oppose the pseudo-scientific nonsense spouted in it's promotion maybe...

42" jeans(25/01/2013) 40"(28/02/2013) 38"(20/03/2013) 36"(25/05/2013)
Down from 60" waist jeans since June 21st 2012.

Still keeping to my 26" jeans, but they are too tight for comfort. too many tasty things in the US, and over Xmas.

Onwards and Downwards! Smile
http://www.menu52.com/
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 09:45
Exactly, they keep sticking words in our mouths. Do whatever diet helps you adhere to a calorie deficit but quit making up "facts" that are not backed by science.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:01
Diablo360x wrote:
reddarin wrote:
[quote=mummydee]The cool thing is that since going LC and wheat-free I almost never get colds any more.


Oh, it has nothing to do with losing fat and getting healthier. Nope, it's definitely the wheat and or LC. Delusional till the end.


Diablo, my fuzzy headed friend, I suffered from occasional migraine like headaches for decades, I suffered from chronic headaches for decades, I suffered from heartburn for decades.

I stopped suffering from chronic headache and heartburn within days of quitting wheat. Well before I lost any weight to speak of.

I know that it was within days because I kept my vitamins beside my analgesics and OTC heartburn stuff so I'd remember to take my vitamins every day. I *always* made sure my headache/heartburn stuff was within reach because I was always taking that stuff so I knew I wouldn't forget to take my vitamins if they were next to that stuff.

About 4 days after quitting wheat (and going LC), I realized I hadn't taken my vitamins in a few days. Then I was thunderstruck when I realized that the reason I hadn't taken my vitamins in a few days was because I hadn't even glanced at my analgesics and heartburn stuff.

I know that you think you know everything about everybody and therefore you are in a position to dictate what everyone should do for success. I don't believe *I* am the one that can be described as delusional. Really, though, you are more about delusions of grandeur than plain old vanilla delusional. After all, it is your life's mission to protect the people not smart enough to make their own decision about LC or really any way to eat that doesn't meet with your approval.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:06
Diablo360x wrote:
Where is anyone pushing their diet onto people?


????

Right here in this thread and *you* and your banned pal in particular.

Holy crap. *All* you do is push your views onto other people.

Diablo360x wrote:
The fact that you think they are separate things, shows how little you truly know about nutrition.


Oh, I don't think *you* are in a good position to lecture other people about nutritional savvy there buddy.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:12
MY views? What diet am I even on? I just eat what I want within my calories. No specific goals save enough protein to maintain LBM. YOU are the one saying LC allows more calorie intake than non-LC.

If you mean CICO, we are all on CICO. It's impossible not to be, lol.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:15
Diablo360x wrote:
Here is a scenario for you people since you think LC makes our body burn extra calories.


Yeah. Because *that* has been the point of the entire thread the whole time.

Oh. Wait. That was a straw man you guys brought up.

Has anyone beside you and the banned guy been arguing this point? I responded to it because *you* brought it up.

I notice that you have failed to disprove that 6 ATP thing that other doctor I quoted said was basic biology.

Also, in a flash of brilliance, *you* are arguing against burning extra calories when *you* claim that protein requires extra calories to process.

Why don't you direct your energies to debunking your own claims about metabolic advantage?

Diablo360x wrote:
Should we be sending all of our processed carbs over to Africa instead of meats and cheeses?


I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't the faintest clue what America exports to Africa.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:24
riocaz wrote:
I may have missed it. But when has anyone said they "oppose LC"?

Oppose the pseudo-scientific nonsense spouted in it's promotion maybe...


Well. You got us there. No one has actually used the word 'oppose' so I guess we all just imagined the opposition to LC.

Opposition to LC??? What opposition to LC???

You mean like the pseudo-scientific nonsense spouted in CICO's promotion maybe? Like the Laws of Thermodynamics?

Because, CICO is based on Science! (with an Agenda!).

Really, that false purity of motivation in the CICO camp is just silly. The most vocal, unbanned, CICO guy in this thread personally hates LC. Now, clearly, that hasn't colored his opinion of it.

lol
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:28
Diablo360x wrote:
Exactly, they keep sticking words in our mouths. Do whatever diet helps you adhere to a calorie deficit but quit making up "facts" that are not backed by science.


Bull crap. We keep exposing what you are saying about LC.

And you just said, what, yesterday?, that you are a self-appointed gatekeeper of what is correct and incorrect and LC is incorrect and therefore an odious burden to be avoided at all cost.

I don't think the guy spouting the Laws of Thermodynamics is the right person to talk about making up 'facts'.

Still waiting on you to address the basic biology from the doc I quoted.

We'll have to get in touch with all the text book publishers and have them correct their 'facts' once you give us the straight scoop on how the body works diablo.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:34
I hate unnecessary restrictions, sue me. Again, we are ALL on CICO, you just choose to restrict food choices to make your CI less of an issue for you. I'm happy it works for you. I, on the other hand prefer moderation of all foods instead of avoidance. We can all co-exist. Also, I do believe in the thermic effect of food which is why I would say a high protein diet can provide slightly better results over a long period of time. I do not think they would be very apparent but it's still a fact backed by science. It's just that to me, attempting to get 150-200g of it a day is less tasty and more expensive which is why I prefer to get around half of that and enjoy a tastier diet.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:35
Diablo360x wrote:
MY views? What diet am I even on? I just eat what I want within my calories. No specific goals save enough protein to maintain LBM.


Spare me the free for all BS about eating anything you want. We've covered it a zillion times.


Diablo360x wrote:
YOU are the one saying LC allows more calorie intake than non-LC.


No. *You/spacey* are the ones saying it. *You/spacey* brought it up and started arguing with yourself about it.

*I* brought up how high my calories were and how sedentary I was to point out the flaw in CICO. Then we got into a pickle with your side having to admit that a calorie isn't a calorie because the disposition of energy is unique to each person's metabolic process. That got sticky because your CICO argument has some very fuzzy Science! underpinning it that *must* treat humans like lawnmower engines.

And, again, I invite you to debunk your own claims about the metabolic advantage of protein.

Smile
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 797

      quote  
Posted: 19 Jul 2013, 10:49
reddarin wrote:
Diablo360x wrote:
Exactly, they keep sticking words in our mouths. Do whatever diet helps you adhere to a calorie deficit but quit making up "facts" that are not backed by science.


Bull crap. We keep exposing what you are saying about LC.

And you just said, what, yesterday?, that you are a self-appointed gatekeeper of what is correct and incorrect and LC is incorrect and therefore an odious burden to be avoided at all cost.

I don't think the guy spouting the Laws of Thermodynamics is the right person to talk about making up 'facts'.

Still waiting on you to address the basic biology from the doc I quoted.

We'll have to get in touch with all the text book publishers and have them correct their 'facts' once you give us the straight scoop on how the body works diablo.


Post a scientific peer reviewed study backing his claims and we might get somewhere. Until that happens that extra 300 calories per day is a pipe dream. If this were true we would have proof all over the place. Let's pretend for a second that our diets provide this much of a difference. 300 calories per day is NOTHING to take lightly and should be pretty apparent after a few months.

Why is this ONE doctor claiming this difference while bodybuilding contest prep coaches who keep up with all new data regarding nutrition in the dark? I mean if this were true, wouldn't all contest prep coaches and movie stars be on LC? I mean, many bodybuilders and movie stars getting ready for a starring role need to be in the best shape possible. Why are they not all on LC diets? In 12 weeks which is on the low end for prep it would make almost an 8lb. difference in fat loss.

Let's use common sense. Also, why are there so many calorie counting websites giving people great results by simply using CICO? Could there be something to thermodynamics? People are measuring intake vs. expenditure and seeing VERY accurate numbers. In my case, I even lost MORE than the numbers show while eating ice cream, pizza, donuts, etc, daily.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.



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