Thermodynamics? Not really...

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reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 12:57
Diablo360x wrote:
Oh goodness. Yes calories must be restricted on ALL diets. You can't drink 2 cups of canola oil a day and lose fat even though it would contain 0 carbs because guess what? It would have near 4k calories. I can eat whatever I want within a calorie goal, you cannot eat whatever you want. You have two restrictors, calories AND carbs(unnecessarily but that's your choice) Plain and simple.


I am a bit confused. Earlier you were saying you could eat ANYTHING you wanted any time you wanted.

Now you are saying that you have a calorie restriction.

Which is it? If you are at your calorie goal for the day can have a bowl of ice cream?

According to your first statement you can because you can have anything any time. Remember?

According to your second statement you cannot.

Spare me the regurgitation about how restrictive LC is. *Your* was is just as restrictive in its own way. You keep denying it but there are few people trying to lose weight with ELMM WB that would honestly say they feel that the approach is no holds barred. But *you* keep trying to pretend it is a carbfest free for all. Nirvana. Paradise.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 13:29
Diablo360x wrote:
I love how the people who believe LC is something extraordinary disregard the fact that calorie counting and macronutrient goals are what get hollywood actors and bodybuilders into amazing shape. They don't do Atkins because it would hinder performance and it gives no benefit. If it did, ketogenic diets and other extreme LC diets would not be avoided.

I give you another amazing sticky with science backed info. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981


Am I misreading the 'science' in that article or are they saying that *what* you eat is as important as how *much* you eat?
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 13:35
Diablo360x wrote:
reddarin, I invite you to attempt to spread your knowledge on the bodybuilding.com nutrition or losing fat forums. It may be a nice learning experience.


Really?

I invite you to spread your knowledge about CICO and thermodynamics on those same forums.

I think it will be an unpleasant experience.

Smile

As an aside though, BB nutritional goals are far different from those of non-BB people.

And, may I say, you'd get your butt handed to you by a knowledgeable BB if you tried to tell them that hormones do not affect energy regulation, fat accumulation and LBM.

But, by all means, give it a try.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 13:54
I'm glad you brought up body building though.

Ever heard of CKD? It stands for 'cyclic ketogenic diet'. It is very, very popular in the body building world. Maybe you should let BB's know that this is an outright lie and misinformation? I mean, it has a low carb component and there is nothing 'magical' about low carb, right? No benefits at all per you.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cyclical_ketogenic_diet.htm

Quote:
The Low-Carb Advantage

When you keep your carbs sufficiently low, you body switches to a fat metabolism; this is called the 'Metabolic Switch'. Switching from a carbohydrate to a fat metabolism has some real advantages for the bodybuilder:

Increased Lipolysis (breakdown of fat)
Decreased Lipogenesis (accumulation of body fat)

This metabolic switch usually takes around 3 days to take full effect. Synthesizing the correct enzymes in sufficient quantities to become a fat-burner takes a little time. This is why some new comers to low carb diets can feel foggy at the beginning.

Please do not confuse this short period for the whole diet; your energy will be back up in no time, and for some people, better than ever!


Wait! What?!? Increased Lipolyssis??? Decreased Lipogenesis??? Lies I say!! All lies. A calorie is a calorie!!

Quote:
Low Carb Concerns

When the light of science shines on the concerns some people have about low carb diets, they vanish without a trace.


Oh no!! Not science?? This person must not know that LC is not mainstream and therefore it is wrong.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 13:59
More bad news from that article:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cyclical_ketogenic_diet.htm

Quote:
The surprising truth is that low carb/high-fat diets consistently outperform all others in improving lipid profiles. Typically, HDL (good) cholesterol rises, LDL (bad) cholesterol drops and triglycerides plummit, producing a much reduced risk of heart disease.


Dang it! You better zip over there and stop this guy from spreading misinformation.
ClassicRocke...

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 956

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 14:00
Shock

***It just means being more independent and not allowing your happiness to be dependent on someone else's demanding and contentious attitudes and actions.***

Wisdom from a friend


I am willing to release the need to be unworthy. I am worthy of the very best in life and I now lovingly allow myself to accept it.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 14:25
Nag1ka wrote:
With that being said,I read things in here and it just seems very strange to hear some LC promoting it like some holy grail that's necessary for weight loss, disregarding the basic's of calories in and calories out.


You might want to take a closer read of what is being said in this thread.

The people saying what you just said about how LC is being represented in this thread are the likes of Diablo and the guy that is (re)gone.

What the people that actually know about LC are saying in this thread, and have been all along, is that LC is a viable way to lose weight, that *what* you eat is as important as how *much* you eat, and that the mainstream dogma of 'eat less move more' fails for some people because their hormones/metabolism is out of whack.

If you can quote any LC person saying that LC is the only way to lose weight for everybody I'm eager to see the quote.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 14:29
Personally, I know that LC is the most healthy lowest inflammation way to live. But I don't demand that everyone follow LC or else.

I say that to strike a contrast with how the other side conducts itself.

Smile
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 15:10
Nag1ka wrote:
the more I read this forum, the more LC seems like a cult...


Assuming for one second you're not just trolling:

If you really think LC is cultish, you should have been here before the Jim Jones of CICO got banned a few weeks ago. You want to see cultic? THAT was cultic...he even wore the shades and everything.

No intelligent LCer would ever say LC is THE ONLY WAY for EVERYONE. Why? Because we know not everyone needs it.

More than one CICO, though, on this very thread, has said CICO is THE ONLY WAY for EVERYONE, whether they realize it or not.

Which one is more cultic, now?

PS For someone who doesn't take his/her own diet very seriously, you're very judgmental of others.
Nag1ka

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 101

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 15:30
The thing I think I find most strange is the amount of offense you can take, or how passionate over a keyboard you seem based on what someone else thinks. Just everyone is starting to seem very preachy on this particular forum. IE. 10 posts to tell someone their clearly wrong and their science is bs.. ect.. personally I don't care what any of you think, and I don't mean that in a harsh criticism way, I mean I respond to how my body feels/acts and adjust my diet based on that.
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,340

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 15:34
Reddarin, I'm going to post a theses here for you regarding the Wheatbelly book that you have found usefull. I know you'll read it with an open mind.
http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/plexus/cfw/pastissues/2012/OpenDocuments/CFW-57-4-0177.pdf
and this is a little about the lady that wrote it.
http://www.gowiththegrain.org/about/bios/bio-jones.php
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 16:05
Nag1ka wrote:
The thing I think I find most strange is the amount of offense you can take, or how passionate over a keyboard you seem based on what someone else thinks. Just everyone is starting to seem very preachy on this particular forum. IE. 10 posts to tell someone their clearly wrong and their science is bs.. ect.. personally I don't care what any of you think, and I don't mean that in a harsh criticism way, I mean I respond to how my body feels/acts and adjust my diet based on that.


Oh?

What I find more strange is someone who comes across as very preachy telling other people when and how they should be offended by other people.

I also find it stranger than the preachy thing for the same person to then state how he or she doesn't really care what anyone else thinks and I don't mean that in a harsh criticism way.

You mean to tell me that you have the audacity to do what is right for you??? My friend, you better keep it to yourself or risk the wrath of the mainstream.

Razz

But seriously, I think that whatever outrage I express is reasonable after having been called a liar, stupid, a spreader of misinformation, a believer in 'magic', etc. I've been told that LC *only* works because of a calorie deficit, period. That there are no inherent good health outcomes from LC. The list is as long as your arm. So beg pardon if I take exception to how *you* characterized the way LC proponents have characterized LC particularly since you were incorrect.

Not that I care what you think haha. I mean, who says that after involving themselves in a conversation/argument/debate?
Nag1ka

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 101

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 16:32
I wouldn't really say that I told you how to do anything, let alone how to act. If anything, I commented on how you actually do respond. I'm glad to hear that so long as you don't have carbs your life is wonderful. congratulations.
Feelingsad

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 12

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 16:44
http://www.thefatlossbible.net/They_Are_All_Mad.pdf
Nag1ka

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 101

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 17:04
Feelingsad wrote:
http://www.thefatlossbible.net/They_Are_All_Mad.pdf


I only read the conclusion.. interesting.
Feelingsad

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 12

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 17:24
Nag1ka wrote:
Feelingsad wrote:
http://www.thefatlossbible.net/They_Are_All_Mad.pdf


I only read the conclusion.. interesting.


yes very....



the one thing I have learnt in life and this is a most ironic subject to discuss it in is that

'There is NO free lunch' literally



Nag1ka

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 101

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 17:39
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 17:58
Nag1ka wrote:
I wouldn't really say that I told you how to do anything, let alone how to act. If anything, I commented on how you actually do respond. I'm glad to hear that so long as you don't have carbs your life is wonderful. congratulations.


I see. So, your finding it 'most strange' wasn't a contrast with what you wouldn't find 'most strange'?

I believe I explained why I react the way I react.

It seems that you find yourself a bit strange too since you do not care about what other's think unless they think it about you. Or am I misreading the snark in your little congratulations?

Generally speaking I find that people that post on a thread just to make a smarmy comment about the other people on the thread are not big fans of having it pointed out to them.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 18:01
reddarin wrote:


"You can attempt to attain a zero carb diet"

For the umpteenth time, LC <> ZC. Can I be any clearer? It seems impossible but if that is still confusing to you let me know and I'll try harder next time. God knows I've said it a dozen times already in this thread and you still cannot seem to wrap your head around it. I understand that when you base your whole argument on a false premise giving up the false premise is next to impossible if intellectual integrity is a foreign concept. And clearly you are challenged in that arena.


LOL, keep reaching to get under my skin with your insults. I did not say you or anyone else on LC tries to attain ZC, I was only trying to get across I couldn't care less what your macro goals are because as long as you're getting enough fats and proteins it DOESN'T matter. Getting enough fats for proper hormone function and protein for lbm retention and do whatever you want with carbs is what I was saying, but thanks for wasting both of our time with your condescending post.

reddarin wrote:

"but they are the people who are sedentary AND eat very little"

Uh huh. So, no unhealthy people that are not sedentary and eat more than a 'very little'?

You said : "which can be done with any diet given a calorie deficit".

According to you, a calorie deficit guarantees fat loss with any diet. A calorie deficit guarantees good health, through weight loss, no matter what is eaten. Then you point to this twinkie diet for proof. Get real.


I DID get real, I posted a real scenario where all health parameters improved on junk food. He and I do not recommend it long term but I still proved it can be done. Hell, I did it myself. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141677741 This is my log where I was skeptical of this working since I've tried it all and struggled. I ate similar to Haub and this is one of my updates on the thread.

"Daily Average: Exercise: 2821kcal Food: 2623kcal (Fat: 95.46g, Protein: 100.10g, Carbs: 342.66g)
Monthly Total: Exercise: 84631kcal Food: 78695kcal (Fat: 2863.69g, Protein: 3002.91g, Carbs: 10279.94g)

Calorie Breakdown:
Carbohydrate (52%)
Fat (33%)
Protein (15%)

Day 256
Total deficit 120613/3500=34.46
Deficit weight 181.54
Actual weight 180 on Oct 1st. (water weight)"

I actually lost more than the numbers show but was carrying extra water weight from a calorie surplus the day before. I entered my activities accurately and entered every single food item consumed and the numbers are amazingly accurate. This made me a true believer. You're knocking this diet when you haven't tried it. I have done both, LC works of course, but it isn't special unless it is the only thing that can make you adhere to a calorie deficit.

Continue to believe you're a special butterfly and somehow different from the rest of us. Keep making excuses for yourself and everyone else. You find your individual calorie maintenance and eat below it. Case closed.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 817

      quote  
Posted: 16 Jul 2013, 18:03
Here is another update I made on post 275.

"Day 287
Total deficit 122892/3500=35.112 lbs.
Deficit weight 180.8
Actual weight on Nov 1st. 176.8"
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.



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