Thermodynamics? Not really...

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mrspackrat

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 554

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:13
umdterpsgirl wrote:
Take a look at her diet calendar now. When you eat ~500 calories a day... Not my idea of living.


LOL I like finding my name in a thread Smile

I'd like to defend myself here if only I could follow what the hell you guys are arguing about Smile As far as my 500 fast calorie days (I do intermittent fasting), I eat more nutrients in those 500 calories than some people eat all day eating 2000 calories. But don't pick on a my fast days please. There's nothing unhealthy about fasting.
this damn tracker below hasn't been right in months! My current weight is 137!
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:15
reddarin wrote:
I can answer that question for him about insulin issues leaving aside the diabetic part of it.

The answer is.... Yes! I know because he was fat, went LC, improved his health (he had it tested), and he's lost weight.

Smile


In the interest of accuracy, I was probably not fat by most people's standard of "fat." I was 186-188 at my heaviest BUT because I have a medium sized frame (5'9, 117 lbs, 28" waist when I graduated H.S.), that was FAR too much weight for me to be lugging around, some adult muscle but most of it excess fat, including a gut I could not conceal because the rest of me was still fairly linear.

I mention this only because I'd say, "Man, I'm getting fat" but someone carrying 50-100 or more extra pounds would respond, "Pfft, you think you're fat? Look at me, my leg's bigger than you!" Okay, they had a point but, still, for my frame, I was too fat and I will NEVER let myself go back to that.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:17
mrspackrat wrote:
umdterpsgirl wrote:
Take a look at her diet calendar now. When you eat ~500 calories a day... Not my idea of living.


LOL I like finding my name in a thread Smile

I'd like to defend myself here if only I could follow what the hell you guys are arguing about Smile As far as my 500 fast calorie days (I do intermittent fasting), I eat more nutrients in those 500 calories than some people eat all day eating 2000 calories. But don't pick on a my fast days please. There's nothing unhealthy about fasting.


Did I read you wrong? I thought you were saying you used to severely limit your calories but the weight wouldn't come off, despite exercise. If I read that wrong I'm sorry and will delete the post.

*calories is the discussion here, is why I posted the quote
mrspackrat

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 554

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:26
I didn't severely limit my calories, I was eating what was recommended at the time 1300-1450 calories to lose about .5-1 lb a week (I weighed about 160 at the time trying to get to 145). I also exercised ALOT but my weight went nowhere. I made changes to my food choices and I'm probably eating the same amount of calories and the weight is coming off nicely. Not sure how that fits into what you guys are talking about. I'm not upset you quoted another post, was merely amused Smile

And I'm pissed my weight tracker says 144.3 when I'm now 140.8. Grrr, when are they going to fix that!
this damn tracker below hasn't been right in months! My current weight is 137!
umdterpsgirl

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 233

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:28
Mrspackrat, sorry didn't mean to pick on you. But I was surprised to see this post in the other thread, thinking you now eat particular foods but at a higher daily calorie limit than before. But then I looked at your diet calendar to only see ~500 calorie days (with many days missing) so I was wrong in my assumption. If that is working for you, great! I definitely like your approach to what foods to eat, I just couldn't do 500 calorie days/fasting.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:36
mrspackrat wrote:
I'd like to defend myself here if only I could follow what the hell you guys are arguing about Smile


We started off arguing about the implications of that movie Primer and it deteriorated from there into an LC versus Mainstream thing.

Razz
kingkeld

Joined: Sep 09
Posts: 1,995

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:42
...slowly backing away from the derailed thread... what's with all the damn arguing these days? Grow up, people.

Visit my website: www.tabdig.info

"Losing weight is never about eating as little as possible"
- Kingkeld.
"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do.
― Eleanor Roosevelt
"Do. Or do not. There is no trying."
- Master Yoda.

I went from morbidly obese to being the owner of TABDIG - a weight loss coaching service that helps people worldwide losing weight. It's been an amazing journey. From October 4th 2010 to April 3rd 2012 I lost half my body weight - 80 kilos/170 lbs. Since then, I have had two cosmetic surgeries to remove excess skin. I have now quadrupled my strength, gained several kilos in muscle mass, and today I focus on building muscle, optimizing my diet, living healthy and helping people to reach the very same goals. I am stronger, healthier, thinner, happier! If you feel that you need help losing weight, don't hesitate to send me an inbox message.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:46
Is it really fair, KK, for you to assert that calorie restriction works for everyone and then make a post like that?
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:06
kingkeld wrote:
...slowly backing away from the derailed thread... what's with all the damn arguing these days? Grow up, people.


I'm not arguing, I'm discussing. Laughing I'm actually enjoying the tone for once...an actual exchange of ideas is happening, which is a first lately.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:07
never surrender wrote:
I quite agree the whole thread is designed to be aggressive and close minded
Starting with the deliberately provocative title and the strident at best tone of the
OP.


lol

*My* tone???

Isn't *your* tone "I'm right, you are wrong, hush up"?

But the reason I created this thread was to battle post like this one by Diablo:

Diablo360x wrote:
If you guys/gals think you can thwart the laws of thermodynamics please attempt to do the same with physics. Can't wait to see lowcarbers who can also fly.


Bah.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:10
never surrender wrote:
kingkeld wrote:
...slowly backing away from the derailed thread... what's with all the damn arguing these days? Grow up, people.


I quite agree the whole thread is designed to be aggressive and close minded
Starting with the deliberately provocative title and the strident at best tone of the
OP.





Funny...maybe I'm wrong...and I apologize if I am...but I don't recall you saying anything like that about the old threads started by someone who is no longer around...threads that were designed specifically to make many people on this board feel as bad as possible. Odd, that.

Maybe I just missed them. Sorry if I did.
mrspackrat

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 554

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:12
When he comes back he should have the name "he who shall not be named" LOL
this damn tracker below hasn't been right in months! My current weight is 137!
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:13
never surrender wrote:
and close minded


Lemme get this straight. If we cannot agree on something then I am close minded because I don't agree with you?

lol

/bonk
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:14
reddarin wrote:
never surrender wrote:
and close minded


Lemme get this straight. If we cannot agree on something then I am close minded because I don't agree with you?

lol

/bonk


Sounds familiar, doesn't it.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 816

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 15:20
mmoodd69 wrote:

I see your point but I respectfully disagree that calorie reduction is the bottom line issue with low carb when it works. Insulin control is.

Yes, I agree that caloric reduction happens, but it is a result. It is not why this style of eating, done right, works every time. Caloric reduction is more a welcome effect; it is not the cause.

Controlling insulin - which someone who used to post here insisted was a myth - is why it works. It's why one can replace nearly every gram of carb they used to eat with healthy fats- and then some - and still lose weight. I know, I've done it. I'm doing it now.

So it's a bit more complex than CICO, at least for some of us. If it isn't for you, you are very fortunate.



No. You're working with outdated info, sorry.

"I don’t normally feature other people’s articles, but today I’m making a well-deserved exception for Jame’s Kreiger’s excellent series on insulin. James takes all these common insulin myths and tears them to shreds:

Carbohydrate is the sole trigger of insulin release;
Replacing carbs with protein means low insulin;
Insulin makes you fat;
Glucagon is a “fat-burning” hormone;
Insulin increases your appetite;
Insulin injections cause weight gain in diabetics, therefore natural insulin causes weight gain in non-diabetics;"
http://anthonycolpo.com/insulin%E2%80%A6an-undeserved-bad-reputation/


Put into laymans terms. Great video here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MGohWAFyI4A



The thermic effect of food is the energy required for digestion, absorption, and disposal of ingested nutrients. Its magnitude depends on the composition of the food consumed:
Carbohydrates: 5 to 15 % of the energy consumed
Protein: 20 to 35%
Fats: at most 5 to 15 %[4]

So, as you can see your body burns 5-15% of the energy consumed of carbs and fats. Replacing all grams of carbs with fats would actually hinder you as fat grams contain 9 calories while carbs contain 4. You would more than double your calories.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 15:39
Diablo360x wrote:
mmoodd69 wrote:

I see your point but I respectfully disagree that calorie reduction is the bottom line issue with low carb when it works. Insulin control is.

Yes, I agree that caloric reduction happens, but it is a result. It is not why this style of eating, done right, works every time. Caloric reduction is more a welcome effect; it is not the cause.

Controlling insulin - which someone who used to post here insisted was a myth - is why it works. It's why one can replace nearly every gram of carb they used to eat with healthy fats- and then some - and still lose weight. I know, I've done it. I'm doing it now.

So it's a bit more complex than CICO, at least for some of us. If it isn't for you, you are very fortunate.



No. You're working with outdated info, sorry.

"I don’t normally feature other people’s articles, but today I’m making a well-deserved exception for Jame’s Kreiger’s excellent series on insulin. James takes all these common insulin myths and tears them to shreds:

Carbohydrate is the sole trigger of insulin release;
Replacing carbs with protein means low insulin;
Insulin makes you fat;
Glucagon is a “fat-burning” hormone;
Insulin increases your appetite;
Insulin injections cause weight gain in diabetics, therefore natural insulin causes weight gain in non-diabetics;"
http://anthonycolpo.com/insulin%E2%80%A6an-undeserved-bad-reputation/


Put into laymans terms. Great video here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MGohWAFyI4A



The thermic effect of food is the energy required for digestion, absorption, and disposal of ingested nutrients. Its magnitude depends on the composition of the food consumed:
Carbohydrates: 5 to 15 % of the energy consumed
Protein: 20 to 35%
Fats: at most 5 to 15 %[4]

So, as you can see your body burns 5-15% of the energy consumed of carbs and fats. Replacing all grams of carbs with fats would actually hinder you as fat grams contain 9 calories while carbs contain 4. You would more than double your calories.


Thanks, but no thanks. I've been following this "outdated info" for years (not consistently, always, but consistently now). It works exactly like it says on the tin and I've got all the medical data to prove it. So I'm quite content. But thanks anyway, I mean that.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 16:04
never surrender wrote:
lol

*My* tone???

Isn't *your* tone "I'm right, you are wrong, hush up"?

But the reason I created this thread was to battle post like this one by Diablo:

Diablo360x wrote:
If you guys/gals think you can thwart the laws of thermodynamics please attempt to do the same with physics. Can't wait to see lowcarbers who can also fly.


Bah.


Quote:
Have I actually told you to hush up at any point on this thread?


Actually, yes. Right there where you threw the silly ad hominem about my 'tone'.

And is it inconvenient to point out that I said 'your tone' not "I'm quoting your exact words"?


Quote:
I'm posing questions based on what I observe, based on the world we live in and human development,


Riiiiiight. As in, "I'm right you're wrong" because *my* observations about the world we live in and human development are wrong in your opinion.

Quote:
you don't actually engage in discussion unlike mmood69 to be fair and it's like talking to a shouty teenager.


Uh huh. More like your arguments are illogical and unpersuasive. Just because I refuse to accept your point of view and your assertions doesn't make me wrong.

Shouty teenager. Well, when you run out of ideas the best recourse is to start calling names. That is far superior to just agreeing to disagree. Because, after all, *you* are right and anyone that disagrees with you and is unafraid to continue disagreeing at some point becomes a shouty teenager. May I ask how my comments can be so construed but your's cannot?

Have I called anyone any names on this thread? No. On the other hand, you are. Who is the shouty teen? Who is the adult?

Gosh.

Quote:
I'm very sure that eating the eating the way you do works for you. I'm just not convinced
it's for the reasons you attribute to it other then you find it more satiating but essentially you
are eating at a calorie deficit or maintainable.


No kidding. That is the whole reason you have continued participating in this thread when you must have long since known that we would not agree on this issue. *I* continued because I think it is important to challenge the mainstream dogma that is taken for granted as correct and being so that is the end of any discussion about it.

Say. Have *you* seen me go on any mainstream thread and demand that everyone see it my way and call them names if they are recalcitrant to admit they are self-evidently wrong? No sir.

Quote:
Anyhow as the dragons say I'm out


Adios to you I guess.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 16:22
Diablo360x wrote:
Carbohydrate is the sole trigger of insulin release;
Replacing carbs with protein means low insulin;
Insulin makes you fat;
Glucagon is a “fat-burning” hormone;
Insulin increases your appetite;
Insulin injections cause weight gain in diabetics, therefore natural insulin causes weight gain in non-diabetics;"


This list could have come from that Hitler meme that was posted several days ago.

I'm sure there are lots of low information LC people that have said everything on that list. Why are they low information? Why do LC people seem to be required to have a doctorate in biology and physiology to be 'right' about LC?

Do you think that similarly uninformed statements can't be found to have been made by people that support your way of things?

And that assumes that these straw men are actually what someone has asserted as correct for LC. I don't doubt that just like I don't doubt that unsupportable assertions have been made about CICO (thermodynamics for example) and exercise.

But if you can quote the likes of Phinney, Volek or Westman saying any of those things I'd sure like to see the link to it.
mummydee

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 2,167

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 16:50
Oh no, i think i'm entering the land of "Deja Vu, Deja Vu!!" Shock
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 816

      quote  
Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 17:27
mmoodd69 wrote:

Thanks, but no thanks. I've been following this "outdated info" for years (not consistently, always, but consistently now). It works exactly like it says on the tin and I've got all the medical data to prove it. So I'm quite content. But thanks anyway, I mean that.


It is not that what you follow doesn't work it's that it is unnecessary and you people pushing it as something special are only making life more difficult for people that can simply practice moderation.

I show you science that debunks your myths and you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears. You are truly lost and since you will remain in denial I wish you would at least stop spreading your misinformation where good people are affected.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.



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