Move more? The science says Meh

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reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 09:45
This links to a PDF. There doesn't seem to be an html version of it on the AHA site. The quote is buried on page 8 under the section "Obesity, Gaining, and Losing Weight" second paragraph. This is the most recent version of the document.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/9/1081.full.pdf

Quote:
It is reasonable to assume that persons with relatively high daily energy expenditures would be less likely to gain weight over time, compared with those who have low energy expenditures. So far, data to support this hypothesis are not particularly compelling (57),


...and then they go on to ignore what they just said here and advise higher daily energy expenditure.

What they don't mention is that there is apparently at least 100 to 150 years of data and all of that accumulated data has failed to provide compelling proof that 'move more' results in less or no weight gain.

Exercise for fitness, which of course has its own health benefits (and risks which no one seems to talk about), but weight loss? Not according to the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Heart Association.
QuilterInVA

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 63

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 12:41
Then why does the AHA recommend exercise?
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

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Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 12:48
QuilterInVA wrote:
Then why does the AHA recommend exercise?


I can tell you what they don't recommend it for: prevention of weight gain.

Smile
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

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Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 13:37
in the end as has been proven its calories in vs calories out which is the key to losing maintaining or gaining weight.

If you move a lot you burn more calories so can eat more and still maintain or lose weight

athletes move loads and eat loads yet remain very trim and lean, once they stop training if they keep on eating the same as before they gain weight.


Andy Murray who just won Wimbledon has to eat 6000Cals a day just to maintain his body weight and he isn't very big , Michael Phelps ate in the region of 7000 cals per day to maintain his at his peak

People obsess over weight loss that is pointless what they should do is focus on FAT loss.

Exercise especially resistance training ensures that more of your lean body tissue is retained when you lose weight

No point being 'SKINNY FAT' thin but with high bf
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 14:38
So you only like science that agrees with your narrow and uninformed point of view?

Here, in case you missed it:

Quote:
It is reasonable to assume that persons with relatively high daily energy expenditures would be less likely to gain weight over time, compared with those who have low energy expenditures. So far, data to support this hypothesis are not particularly compelling (57),


Smile
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 15:17
You miss the point as usual more energy expended more energy can be consumed
But no matter how active you are if you over eat you will still gain weight

So if Andy Murray ate 7000 calories a day he would put on weight likely fat and muscle

I don't see your eureka moment except your allergy to not being a sloth
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 15:33
Hmmm.

It looks like plain English to me. Is English not your first language? If you tell me your native tongue I can use Google translator to make it clear for you.

There is no compelling proof in 150 years of data that more calories expended stops weight gain.

So exercising to keep trim is a myth.

I'm sorry to be the one to burst your sacred cow. Well. Not really Razz

By the way, you never did answer my question about what science you choose to believe in. Maybe you think the folks at AHA and Sports Medicine are fat and therefore must be wrong the way you do about Taubes?

Shall I see if I can find some pics of these men so you can decide if their current physical appearance makes what they say worthy?

While I do that you post Taubes height weight and age to prove he is a 'fatty' as you like to call him.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 15:49
I have never said more calories expended stops weight gain its
about maintaining an overall deficit to lose balance to maintain and excess to gain
You can't out train a bad diet but exercise does allow you to consume more

If you wish to develop muscle stay fit and physically active you have to move or exercise to some extent

Sure you could stay in bed all day barely eat and you would stay"light" you can witness this in any elderly Care home or hospital. But personally I don't think the elderly dying is a great look or particularly desirable state to be in
But sure you go for it


As for tubby taubes I would expect a person who sells books to make himself money to at least be able to demonstrate the effectiveness of his own methods

At least the insanity and p90x crowd actually look like they practice what they preach
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 16:23
Spacey47 wrote:
I have never said more calories expended stops weight gain


You say that and then you turn right around and say this:

Quote:
but exercise does allow you to consume more


Consume more .... and .... and .... not gain.

You give absolutely zero thought to what you are saying. Is that right? No thought whatsoever past "I'm right so everyone else must be wrong and Gary Taubes is a fatty even though I have no idea what his age, height or weight might be it is enough that I say he is fat just like it is enough that I say I'm right! And when I go to sleep at night the entire world blinks out of existence until I wake up in the morning! Derp!".

Quote:
If you wish to develop muscle stay fit and physically active you have to move or exercise to some extent


Is this normally a winning strategy for you when you are trying to pretend that you are right about something? Change the subject and hope against hope that no one notices? I've called you on it several times yet you continue doing it.

Is that not strange?

Quote:
Sure you could stay in bed all day barely eat and you would stay"light" you can witness this in any elderly Care home or hospital. But personally I don't think the elderly dying is a great look or particularly desirable state to be in


Yet another bizarre spaceflight into Camp No One Said That. With a stop over at Unfocusedville.

Quote:
As for tubby taubes


Far be it for me to ask for any shred of evidence that Taubes is actually overweight. I mean. Heck. You've said it a zillion times so it must be true. Please stay up extra late tonight so the world can exist for a little longer before your nappy time.

Quote:
At least the insanity and p90x crowd actually look like they practice what they preach


Boy howdy! You got me there! Not only have you not proven that Taubes is fat you've also reinforced your old stand by that physical appearance is *the* demarcation between right and wrong! Knowledge and not-knowledge! Yepper. Who can argue with that???

Listen. You get on the phone with the football teams east of the rocky mountains and I'll dial up the ones west of there and we'll let them know that if their coaches are fat they no longer know what they are talking about and, although we are very sorry, they'll have to be let go. And be sure they do it before you go to bed tonight.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 16:48
Good health and fitness should last a lifetime , pretty hypocritical in my book to make a living out of selling a healthy life style you don't follow yourself
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 16:55
Let me break it down so your addled brain can comprehend

Sedentary rdi 2000 calories

Active rdi 3000 calories

You can eat up to 1000 more calories a day without gaining weight is that so hard to understand?

I like to eat ....a lot...so I am quite active and I Like the physical attributes both aesthetically and fitness wise it gives me

You prefer to be sedentary though you secretly want a toned defined body.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:07
Spacey47 wrote:
Good health and fitness should last a lifetime , pretty hypocritical in my book to make a living out of selling a healthy life style you don't follow yourself


Are you sitting down? I just want to make sure you don't faint dead away and get a concussion or something.

#1. Numero Uno. You have yet to actually prove that Taubes is actually one ounce overweight let along a 'fatty' which I assume is 100% defined by you.

#2. Which is fitting because that is what your point is. Ever heard of a library? How about youtube? Taubes books are available for 'free' at the library, so is Atkins, so is Phinney/Volek, and Taubes has a ton of videos with the lecture that the WWGF book was based on. And, of course, Phinney/Volek also have videos on youtube that describe their position and their plan, such as it is, in depth.

Not to mention the fact that Phinney and Volek have been guests on at least Jimmy Moore's podcast. That is... you guessed it! Free!!! Woohooo!!!

Smile
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:14
Spacey47 wrote:
Let me break it down so your addled brain can comprehend

Sedentary rdi 2000 calories

Active rdi 3000 calories

You can eat up to 1000 more calories a day without gaining weight is that so hard to understand?

I like to eat ....a lot...so I am quite active and I Like the physical attributes both aesthetically and fitness wise it gives me

You prefer to be sedentary though you secretly want a toned defined body.


Oh thank God! You've finally cleared up the entire issue!

...

Wait! Ah crap! There is that pesky sciencie stuff you were going on about in other threads. Dang dang dang!

Quote:
It is reasonable to assume that persons with relatively high daily energy expenditures would be less likely to gain weight over time, compared with those who have low energy expenditures. So far, data to support this hypothesis are not particularly compelling (57),


Now, I don't want to be the one to nit pick but the American Heart Association and the American College of Sports Medicine say right there that you are full of poop.

I still haven't found any pictures of them so maybe they will be fat and we can dismiss them as wrong because of their physical appearance per your standards for accuracy in correctness.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:14
At the end if the day you are not happy with how you look yet your restricted mindset stops you from putting in the work to get the physique you truly desire.

I

Get off your sedentary butt and as the old ad says just Do it
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:18
Well the proof is there to see highly active people ATHLETES eat loads and stay lean

Must be magic then, not all that physical activity and calorie burning muscle they have built
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:41
Spacey47 wrote:
Well the proof is there to see highly active people ATHLETES eat loads and stay lean

Must be magic then, not all that physical activity and calorie burning muscle they have built


I've got another shocker for you buddy. Are you still sitting down?

Check this out. Really smart people came up with a term for what you are expressing here:

a n e c d o t a l

Yessiree Bob! Smart folks pointed out that circumstantial evidence is evidence of circumstantial stuff.

As if that wasn't enough! Unless you are unable to walk and chew gum there is the problem that you don't know if it is the exercise that keeps the athletes you mention thin or some other factor like phenotype, genes, whoknowswhat.

Worse yet! Unless every athlete living can duplicate what the ones you are pointing to as 'proof' then you are not pointing at 'proof' at all. However! If we work on the word 'proof' we can, in fact, reveal what you are pointing at... 'poop'. Viola!

Say! I recommend that you not watch street magicians. Despite what you see, they really are not levitating. I know I know. You can *see* that they are levitating and according to your version of Occam's Razor, ipso facto the man is in fact levitating. But that is what happens when your depth of thought cannot be measured in micrometers.

Plus. There is always that pesky science stuff that you seem to have suddenly lost interest in. That's weird.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:44
Spacey47 wrote:
At the end if the day you are not happy with how you look yet your restricted mindset stops you from putting in the work to get the physique you truly desire.

I

Get off your sedentary butt and as the old ad says just Do it


Boy. The energizer bunny has got nothing on you my friend! Didn't I just point out that when you change the subject it is very apparent?

Look. When you hide in the closet and put your hands over your eyes and someone opens the closet door.... they can see you.

Try to stay focused. It is hard and makes your head hurt but you'll appear a lot less foolish. Give it a try.

Smile
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:50

yeah its anecdotal is that your excuse for being a slob its in your genes!



reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 17:58
Spacey47 wrote:

yeah its anecdotal


Anecdotal is a big word for you brother. Try on 'wrong' or some other single syllable synonym.

Quote:
is that your excuse for being a slob its in your genes!


Hmmmm. Am I a slob? I didn't think so but if you say so then we already know that that is the end of the matter.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 07 Jul 2013, 18:04
you still want some more exercise tips or have you given up already?



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