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mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 09:18
Just wanted to stop in and say hello. I'm male, 44, and have been on strict to not-so-strict LC for several years now, but am now in Induction (SOOOOOOOO much easier now than at first). Results are going well. Last time I did this, I had my blood checked and my doctor went from (at the prior results) strongly suggesting Lipitor to being very surprised and leaving me alone. All numbers improved, which I knew they would. I look forward to seeing the look on her face again in a few months when I have a checkup.

Anyway, all you LC folks: don't quit, don't heed the naysayers for a second, shoot for ketosis and all will be well!
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 10:46
mmoodd69 wrote:


Anyway, all you LC folks: don't quit, don't heed the naysayers for a second, shoot for ketosis and all will be well!


Why should you be happy!

Live a full life everything in moderation based on scientific fact not faddish restrictive nonsense
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 11:16
Stranger,

I don't know who made you the arbiter of happiness but when I do consistent low carb/high fat, as I'm doing now, all my blood indicators end up in the healthier end of normal range, much to the surprise of my doctor because it's all done with diet. But when I eat carbs "in moderation" (yeah, I've tried it) I gain weight and end up with unhealthy blood numbers because insulin-related issues run in my family. Perhaps you're fortunate not to have that problem. Many of us do.

But I know I'm wasting my breath telling you that because you couldn't care less. So please do yourself a favor: stop embarrassing yourself with this childish, absolutist pontificating on what can't work for total strangers. You sound like an unmediated fanatic, or a spoiled, emotionally delayed child. Whatever your malfunction is, you are immature, tedious and already very boring.

By the way. I was addressing people who do LC. Since you don't believe in LC - which is fine - you are rude for butting into a topic where you have no intelligent input. If you have such great self-control in your diet, please try to exercise some of it in your posts. You'll look much more like a mature adult.

You have a nice day now.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 11:32
I'll have a Lovely day thanks..got any science to back up your BS

When you eat carbs you just over eat hence you gain weight

Interesting use of phrase "BELIEVE in LC"
Diet isn't faith based its factually based
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 11:49
mmoodd69 wrote:
You'll look much more like a mature adult.



lol

Have you tried NK? Phinney/Volek wrote two books about it, one for high information LC'rs and PCPs, the Living book, and one for athletes, the Performance book.

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net/

mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 11:58
reddarin wrote:
mmoodd69 wrote:
You'll look much more like a mature adult.



lol

Have you tried NK? Phinney/Volek wrote two books about it, one for high information LC'rs and PCPs, the Living book, and one for athletes, the Performance book.

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net/



Hi Darin,

The only thing I know about these authors is a podcast I just listened to at Jimmy Moore's place with Dr. Phinney. I know almost nothing beyond what he said, which was just a Q and A.

You know, my wife and I were just discussing NI last night. We're having trouble figuring out exactly what NK involves. The best I can tell, it's using blood measurements rather than urine to fine-tune one's diet to make ketosis more efficient...am I close?
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 12:20
mmoodd69 wrote:

Hi Darin,

The only thing I know about these authors is a podcast I just listened to at Jimmy Moore's place with Dr. Phinney. I know almost nothing beyond what he said, which was just a Q and A.

You know, my wife and I were just discussing NI last night. We're having trouble figuring out exactly what NK involves. The best I can tell, it's using blood measurements rather than urine to fine-tune one's diet to make ketosis more efficient...am I close?


That is a great podcast! Tons of information that is applicable to LC in general too.

Here is a post I made that concisely describes the difference between LC and NK:

http://nkevolution.freeforums.net/thread/22/nutritional-ketosis

There is no need to test blood ketones. You can do it and there is a defined range for BK levels for NK but P/V do not promote it in the Living book. They do mention testing in the Performance book but that was written for athletes who want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of themselves.

There is a defined range of protein grams (not ounces of meat) and a hard cap on total carbs (no net carbs with NK) of 50g with fat for the balance of calories.

It generally requires a little more, or a lot more, attention to detail so if vanilla LC is working for a person I don't think they need to do NK. On the other hand, if you're stuck or not getting very good results with plain old LC it is a great alternative.

Smile

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 12:30
That was a great explanation they/you gave of NK. Regular LC is working for me now and I'm 8-12 pounds away from what I think is my ideal, so I'm keeping on for now. But if I stall, I'm going to look into it. I mentioned testing blood ketones because everyone I found talking about NK seemed to be into or interested in the blood angle.

I am curious why the doctors do not believe in differentiating fiber from carbs. I asked Jimmy about it; he couldn't remember off top of his head but said he'd contact Dr. Phinney and get back to me. Do you know why they go with absolute/total over net?

Thanks again for the explanation. My limit, btw, is around 35 grams max and insulin starts to spike. I keep it lower just to play it safe (and I got diabetes in my family).
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 13:52
mmoodd69 wrote:
That was a great explanation they/you gave of NK. Regular LC is working for me now and I'm 8-12 pounds away from what I think is my ideal, so I'm keeping on for now. But if I stall, I'm going to look into it. I mentioned testing blood ketones because everyone I found talking about NK seemed to be into or interested in the blood angle.

I am curious why the doctors do not believe in differentiating fiber from carbs. I asked Jimmy about it; he couldn't remember off top of his head but said he'd contact Dr. Phinney and get back to me. Do you know why they go with absolute/total over net?

Thanks again for the explanation. My limit, btw, is around 35 grams max and insulin starts to spike. I keep it lower just to play it safe (and I got diabetes in my family).


Thanks Smile

Yeah. Testing gets a lot of attention but it is not the best way to approach NK in my opinion. First off, Phinney said, in no uncertain terms in that LTS podcast, that higher in the NK range does *not* mean better, or even any, weight loss. *All* it means is your body is more efficient at using ketones for fuel. That tells me that getting your macros right (and not having too much of a caloric deficit) is the first step. Testing BK is a last resort not a first step.

Unless, of course, you are an athlete, per the Performance book, which is where they even mention testing BK outside of a clinical setting, which is where they mention it in the Living book.

Moore tests his BK and has from the get go. But he also intended to thoroughly document his N=1 experiment which makes the data from frequent testing an essential factor.

As a non-athlete, I've never tested mine. There isn't any need to unless you have no other recourse for figuring out what is hinky.

I'd be very interested in hearing Phinney's response to that question. I've never heard Phinney or Volek explain it. I surmise that the issue is that the body's reaction to total carbs happens before it finds out that there is a fiber component to the carb. By the time the metabolism determines that some parts are indigestible the chance to signal the change in fuel source has passed.

I've argued the point about BK testing with the proponents of it on another forum and it is like talking to a brick wall lol. I'm sure I convinced lurkers that the BK police had no ground to stand on but reason takes a backseat to voodoo every single time.

Smile

Darin
http://nkevolution.freeforums.net
mmoodd69

Joined: Jul 13
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 15:55
"I'd be very interested in hearing Phinney's response to that question."

One person said (though someone else disagreed) that the authors believe fiber in the gut gets acted upon by bacteria and thereby create calories - not glucose - and so total carbs should be counted because the body does end up using at least some of the fiber calorically. No idea if it's true, will let you know when I hear back. If true, it makes me wonder what their opinion is on sugar alcohols.
reddarin

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 959

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jul 2013, 16:52
Hmmmm.

That theory doesn't make any sense at all. The doctors are concerned about whatever scant calories might derive from fiber digestion by gut flora??

That reminds me of a theory put forth by a person that insisted that you had to test for BK or you weren't doing NK. I said, why wasn't at home BK testing mentioned in the Living book? At home testing is mentioned in the Performance book apparently but it isn't the central focus from what I've been told.

Her flabbergasting mind boggling I'm coming to join you Elizabeth answer... Neither Volek nor Phinney had ever heard of BK test strips and they weren't available when the Living book went to print (Performance book was printed about 11 months later).

lol

I mean, come on! Ever heard of diabetes and diabetic keto-acidoses?? Those strips have been around for years and years for at home use.



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