Maintaining ketosis (is it worth it?)

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blueniamh

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 102

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 08:15
Hey all,

This is sort of a spin off from the fat-shaming thread, but I didn't want thread hijack with a 'hey...help me fix my diet' post Razz . I've been off my diet for few weeks for various reasons, but I need to go back on it and I think it needs minor tweaking. I was low carbing for the purposes of getting into ketosis, but also keeping my diet low fat (and overall watching the calories)...which was getting kinda tricky if I'm going to be honest.

I've been reading the debate back and forth about different styles of diet in the other thread and well...I'm confused, mainly about the role of ketosis. My understanding of ketosis comes from a introductory subject on nutrition that I took many years back and is something like this: The brain (and some other part of the body which I can't remember) essentially need carbohydrates for fuel. In the absence of enough carbohydrate, the body breaks down fat cells into ketones as a substitute fuel for the brain. The source of fat for this process can either come from the diet or from stored body fat.

My main internal theory for keeping my diet both low in fat and low in carbs was that I would go into ketosis and because I wasn't eating very much dietary fat that my body would have to use stored fat to produce ketones thus getting bonus fat loss on top of maintaining a calorie deficit I guess. Some of the studies being put forth were that ketosis did not increase the amount of fat burned (ok...that's if I understood correctly, which might be iffy)...the one point of consensus seemed to be that ketogenic diets increase satiety (...and I was sitting there thinking 'well, if it's just a matter of controlling my appetite I'd really like to eat some lf flavoured yoghurt' Razz ).

What I'm essentially trying to work out is: if I have a diet that is low fat and maintains a certain number of calories...is that the same as having a diet that is low fat, maintains the same number of calories, but is also ketogenic (low carbs) in terms of weight loss or would I burn more fat under the second scenario? I feel like I'm missing something.

Thanks.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 08:25
no diet of the same calorie level has any more benefit than any other it's about
Energy in and out.

If a certain diet helps you stick to a calorie deficit over another then consider it
diet wise there is no metabolic advantage

Imo humans evolved to eat the natural foodstuffs that grow on our planet get your calories from a balanced mixed diet
and exercise...this is sustainable long term

liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 676

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 08:35
You really would have to try this out on your body
One thing is for sure a flavoured yogurt is not going to be your friend if you want to be in ketosis. They are flavoured with a loud of sugar and ketosis and sugar is not going to work

I can answer this from an Atkins perspective (since Atkins is my kind of diet)
The brain need glucose. In absence of enough carbs the body will break down protein to make the glucose.
body needs energy - it usually gets a lot of energy from carbs. In absence of carbs it will break down fat through ketosis

There is nothing wrong with eating fat. Not eating fat will not make ketosis change.
You have to eat something and if you do not eat fat or carb you will have to eat protein. It may not be good to put your body through high amounts of protein - also it is believed the body can break down excess protein to create sugar and if that happens you may as well be eating carbs
so you need to find your balance.
Lost of stuff you can read about there about low carbing (I like to check the diet doctor's web site regularly, follow some of Jimmy Moore's podcasts - join a support group - because that helps)
jonnybadback

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 321

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 09:45
If you get the balance of fat protein carb etc right for you then the ketosis should sort itself out. You would need to experiment over a few days at a time and log all your food to see what the break down is... Smile
Sherillynn

Joined: Mar 11
Posts: 267

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 11:26
Why low fat and low carb? I don't quite understand. I'll re-read the post and see if I am just slow but my understanding is that fat doesn't necessarily get processed and stored as fat. Your body needs fat to function properly and I think fat and carbs are your main source of energy. If you limit both, you are likely to be exhausted. I am a low- carber myself and I like the fact that fats make me feel full but are digested slowly.
Good luck! Let us know how it all turns out!
** Goal 1- 20 pounds- 4/30/2013
** Goal 2- get back down to wearing size 16 jeans
** Goal 3- normal blood pressure
** Goal 4- well below "One" Derland
** Goal 5- 600 miles this year in 200 mile increments
** Goal 6- Decreased back and knee pain

Blessings,
Sherill


ebivr

Joined: Jun 08
Posts: 424

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 12:22
A ketogenic diet is better for your heart health, leading to lower resting heart rate, healthy cholesterol, glucose and triglyceride levels. Reduces the risk of & is effective treatment for heart disease, high blood pressure & diabetes.

You can eat up to 60g of net carbs & stay in ketosis, allowing you to enjoy a wider selection of fruits & veg etc.

Cottage cheese if blended until smooth with some strawberries or raspberries etc & a little sweetener (I like Truvia) is low carb & taste just like yoghurt.

It's better to eat a high fat ketogenic diet, if not the body will just draw out energy from what you do eat. Which in the absence of carbs & fat will fall on protein or alcohol, of which too much of either is bad for you.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the the Law, Love is the whole of the law, Love before will, The meaning of life is to Love"
"Never apologise for who you are"
"Leave as little negative impact on the world as possible"
"Last night fear knocked on my door, faith answered and no one was there"
Even if it's slow it's going to Go!

Starting weight: 318 lbs!! 2nd of June 2008, (Calorie Counting!).

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January 2009 Month 8: 229 lb (6 lb. lost). February 09 Month 9: 223 lb (6 lb. lost). March 09 Month 10: 211 lb (12 lb. lost). April 09 Month 11: 208 lb (3 lb. lost). May 09 Month 12: 210 lb (+2 lb. gained). June 09 Month 13: 188 lb (22 lb. lost). July 09 Month 14: 181 lb (7 lb. lost). August 09 Month 15: 179 lb (2 lb. lost).

Starting weight: 305 lbs!! 19th of November 2013, (Atkins!).

November 2012 Month 1: 297.2 lb (7.8 lb. lost). December 2012 Month 2: 292 lb (5.2 lb. lost). January 2013 Month 3: 276.8 lb (15.2 lb. lost). February 2013 Month 4: 262.6 lb (14.2 lb. lost). March 2013 Month 5: 276.6 lb (+14 lb. gained). April 2013 Month 6: 253.4 lb (23.2 lb. lost). May 2013 Month 7: lb ( lb. ).
blueniamh

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 102

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 16:05
Thanks everyone for your responses Smile .

Liv - My understanding was that protein is used in breaking down fat cells in ketosis, but that ketones are directly derived from fat cells? I guess I've been thinking of ketones as fat cells that have been split (I was thinking that calling them cells might be an incorrect use of the word as actual fat cells can't be destroyed, so I'm not sure what the correct term is).

Sherillynn - The low carb and low fat thing comes from my understanding that the bodies priority for breaking down fat cells is to take the fat first from dietary fat, and then secondly in the absence of enough dietary fat to use fat cells stored in the body. So my logic being that if I don't have enough fat in my actual diet to produce ketone bodies, then my body has to resort to using store fat.

I do indeed agree that carbs and fat are major sources in energy, and trying to limit them both resulted in a diet too low in calories...which after a couple of months slowed my metabolism, and if I went to a family dinner where I was eating a normal meal that would be a big set back. It became a losing battle.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 16:15
Try both ways and see if it makes a difference in whether you are in ketosis, but also your ease of losing weight. Write everything down, including your ketostix readings.
Goethe

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 54

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 20:04
You can't do a low carbs and low fat diet at the same time, your energy levels will go to the floor and you will be left dizzy, sleepy and without much energy to do exercises.

Try a low carb, for a week or two with normal consumption of fat and see how it feels, eating proteins do satisfy way more with much less, so your daily cal intake will certainly drop, sometimes I had to force myself to eat more, btw, you have to do something that you will know that you will be able to maintain at least in the mid-term.

Btw, the one thing about ketosis, is that I sorely miss my white bread in the morning and sometimes I eat it, it still keeps me below the 40g carbs/day, but considering nearly everything has carbs, it's a very difficult diet to maintain and let's not decieve ourselves, it doesn't really reeducate your eating habits, but it works.

Trying to get back to ketosis right now to get out of a slump.
I started my weight loss journey seriously on oct 18 of 2012, and so far:
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

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Posted: 05 Feb 2013, 20:33
The problem with going low fat and trying to achieve ketosis is that in the absence of carbohydrates and adequate fat the body will break down protein into glucose which can prevent you from entering into ketosis.

One of the studies that Nimm posted that showed ketosis wasn't protein sparing used a liquid solution for the study diet. In that liquid solution the fat for the diet was derived from corn oil which is hard for the body to digest so I don't consider that study as something that would have practical application for the real world.

However I wouldn't focus on achieving ketosis and instead focus on learning how to listen to your body's hunger signals.

Here is how I look at a healthy diet.

-Try to get between 10%-20% of your diet from protein. Get your meat from well raised animals, organic if possible.
-When eating fats focus on eating saturated fats like butter and animal fat. Despite common wisdom these are the healthy fats that your body thrives on. Avoid seed oils (corn, soybean, safflower, canola, etc.)
-When eating carbs focus on eating starches like potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash, and white rice. Avoid this step if you're dedicated to doing hard core low-carb. I think these foods wont hurt weight loss but you'll have to test for yourself.
-Eat as much non-starchy vegetables as you want.
-Limit sweets as best as humanly possible Smile
-Fruit in moderation, dried fruits can cause over consumption (at least for me they do!)

-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"



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