"Fat-shaming may curb obesity" ???

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shmiller

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 497

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 08:55
Did anyone else see this and want to throw up? Evil or Very Mad

Fat-shaming may curb obesity, bioethicist says
"The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of the hill" The Grateful Dead
LisaPiglet

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 1

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 08:58
that's horrifying but i am not suprized..weight loss is a female issue for the most part.. our *cultural female aesthetic* ideals can suck it
Schayla

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 4

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 09:04
That's horrible, I don't even have the words to convey the anger....that's just bs. Ugh, thank you for sharing that link, I'm with you I want to throw up.
KayseaLove

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 111

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 09:55
I read the title wrong. I thought it said fat sham-ming like sham wow not fat shame-ing. So I read it wondering what a fat sham was... I thought maybe from your reactions it had to do with throwing fat at people... I didn't know. I guess it's more about public disgracing people for being over weight...

I do have to say peer pressure to quit smoking worked for me. I felt like a social outcast when I did smoke... I also felt guilt, shame (not sham) and over all dirty imagining the smelly chemicals radiating off of my clothes, hair and body... so for me to overcome one of the most powerful addictions... overeating should be a breeze.

As far as someone over weight and obese (myself included) I see people for who they are on the inside not on the outside. My decision to get in shape and practice weight management was something I decided for myself and for my own reasons such as how I perceived myself, my health, and the fact I had to buy new bigger hard to find clothes and still I grew out of them as fast as I bought them.

My daughter her whole life (all ten years of them) would always say: "Mommy, you're fat" and I would joke: "No sweetheart, it's just the angle you are looking up at me that makes me appear fat to you."

When I could no longer bend down to tie my own shoes comfortably I cried and wanted to die... I felt hopeless. The desire to lose weight and get in shape was there but for the life of me I had no idea where to start. Luckily I found tools and support (this site included) and found some motivation. Becoming educated on nutrition and fitness was gold. I didn't grow up learning this in my family and if it was taught in school - I dismissed it as common sense and didn't worry about it.

So I guess what I am trying to say is... Education and awareness is important. The only person I had to account to was me. There is/are no social pressures in the comfort of my pajamas in the comfort of my own kitchen late night influencing my snacking habits... just me. My eating doesn't affect anyone around me or kill anyone like smoking did so what worked for one doesn't work for the other. Its a personal choice. 98% of most menu items from restaurants and fast food places are fattening. Like the article mentioned... make it mainstream.

Food and family gatherings (think thanksgiving dinner) are symbolic for love and tradition... so in a way our American holidays make it socially acceptable to gorge on food. It's more convenient for me to pick up an unhealthy snack then it is to find a healthy one. I really have to put a lot of work into telling myself no to temptations, seeking out the hidden healthy gem in a store, or put hours into planning meals following healthy guideline... It feels like swimming against a strong current at times.

Shame-ing individuals is stupid. It's like shame-ing the symptoms of a problem instead of the root of the problem which is a whole culture. I am only one person and I can not change the world - but I can change myself. If I see someone struggling with their weight I am here to offer help, tips, teach skills, educate, make aware, offer support - NOT do as the article suggests... What good would it be to shun people??? Isn't this the same as bullying??
ZippyDani

Joined: Sep 11
Posts: 29

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 10:04
But if you really read the article, it's one person, a FIT 82 year old dude, who is talking about increasing the shame factor, and most other professionals are wholly disagreeing with his argument. What may have worked for the fit now-82 year old to quit smoking/eating fatty foods won't always work for the rest of us. Shaming people into quitting something or eating better/exercising is NOT the answer, and won't do anything except jack with already sensitive souls. Education and resources are the answer, as well as more of the chain restaurants revamping menus to add more healthful options, like so many are doing now. Being fat might not be a choice, but doing something to fix it must come from within the individual. This one dude isn't going to make any change.
Nothing to it but to do it! ~Floyd of The Electric Mayhem
CJT1217

Joined: Sep 11
Posts: 224

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 10:13
Yeah, going after a person who might already be very selfconscious about their weight doesn't seem to be the best angle of attack on this. Some people may rise above and counter it and get back in shape, but I think for the most part it'll just make it worse.

I agree with education and awareness. Promoting a healthier lifestyle with the TRUTH about food and what the body does with it would be and should be the first step for anyone trying to have a healthier and more efficient body.

Stay the course, stay on point, stay motivated, dedicated, and you won't be stopped. Discipline. Perseverance. Focus. Dig deep and you will be victorious.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 10:38
Fat-shaming is something that self-righteous naturally thin people like to do, because it stokes their egos to imagine that they consciously made the choice to be thin and every day of their lives make conscious decisions to keep themselves thin, when the fact is they live the same lifestyles as the people they revile for being fat. The attitude tells them that hundreds of millions of people have simply chosen to be obese and could just as easily choose not to be that way. It is a popular attitude nowadays among those who like to think the overweight are simply morally inferior, lazy gluttons.

The number of people who are obese and unaware that they are fat is insignificantly small. So fat-shaming really serves zero purpose.

The big issue is that medical science has no real answers as to why people get fat, why more people are fat and are fatter than a generation ago, and what can be prescribed to a patient to reach a healthy weight in a safe manner and keep it off. Diets only "work" maybe 2% of the time, for those who have somehow found a way to transition into a healthy lifestyle that satisfies their hunger in a way that makes their weight manageable.

Those who diet and fail to reach their goal and keep it off are browbeaten to try diet after diet, fail, beat themselves up for it, and keep trying, despite the fact that yo-yo dieting is one of the major causes of weight gain. Each diet you fail at leaves you heavier!
BgIrn

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 97

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 10:49
What really sucks about this is; It makes me feel a little nauseous to think of "teasing the fatty" to make someone desire to benefit themselves, but at the same time most people are very misguided and need something.

There is a pervasive "weight loss industry" quandary going on. We all know that calories in =/= calories out, works at it's simplest. However, you have an industry that makes it's money victimizing people into thinking something is intrinsically wrong with them, and that's why they can't lose weight. Whether it be make believe metabolic syndromes or insulin responses or a host of other things I have heard in the last few months. It's convenient to blame your obesity on something you cannot control, and take no responsibility for your own actions.

I saw a blog the other day by an obese woman who was making all kinds of unsubstantiated claims, making them sound scientifically valid by using ten dollar vocabulary, and everything she said outrageously incorrect. She was championing not restricting your intake or exercising because "when I exercise my body thinks it's being attacked, and stores fat". It was flabbergasting really.

In this example this woman, I believe, really thinks what she is saying is valid (or a giant troll), and needs serious educating to repair her own knowledge as well as all of the commenters that have LATCHED onto her pseudo-scientific bulls##t blathering as "THE reason" they can't lose weight.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 10:59
Learned helplessness is a big part of the problem. Overweight is a complex issue. But people who are convinced that there is nothing they can do end up paying huge amounts of money to "experts", be they surgeons or diet gurus whose diet is little different from any of thousands of diets out there with no long-term follow up, to psychiatrists and psychologists who are trying to help them with emotional eating issues that are dwarfed by bad habits like snacking. Bad habits have been learned, and they can be unlearned.

But there's no money in solving our obesity problems. Look at how much money big pharma makes from illnesses caused by or aggravated by obesity. What incentive do they have to create and sell an inexpensive solution were they to find one?
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 675

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 11:16
Social pressures and social conformity are important motivation factors. We make a lot of decisions as humans based on those criteria. I don't see why trying to use these factors in combating obesity is inherently wrong.
I would of course argue that we must change our thinking around what makes us fat in the first place so that we can tackle it correctly.
Making it just a moral issue is not going to work.
shmiller

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 497

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 11:29
I'm all for taking responsibility for my own actions--good or bad.

For me--and understand, I mean for me ALONE--I am fat because I allowed myself to be fat. My family is not fat. I ate too much. I was lazy. For me--and ME ALONE--that is a fact that I need no science to prove. I know this because as soon as I willed myself to stop, as soon as I made the CHOICE to stop bingeing and start exercising instead, it was stunningly easy to lose the weight. I also know this because when I stopped doing that two Christmases ago, I started getting fat again.

Personal responsibility is just that, though. Personal. This country will raise all kinds of banners against bullying and spend fortunes of taxpayer dollars in our public schools on programs like OLWEUS to teach kids to stick up for others, but this "bioethicist's" approach is just that: bullying. And I can't imagine a world where bullying is inspirational and thought of as a positive approach to inciting lifestyle change. To me, that seems counter-intuitive on many levels.

But I don't think we can kid ourselves, either. Being responsible for oneself is a major player in almost all factors of life for a sentient being. Lack responsibility for your finances, you will be broke or bankrupt. Lack of responsibility for your children, they will be neglected or hurt. Lack of responsibility for your job, you will lose it. Lack of responsibility for your own health, you will not be healthy. And though there are mitigating circumstances to all these examples, it is undeniable that personal choice to take responsibility plays an important role.

But shame, in my opinion, plays no role. It's like giving Hester Prynne the Scarlet Letter. Cruel, and pointless.
"The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of the hill" The Grateful Dead
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 11:33
liv001 wrote:
Social pressures and social conformity are important motivation factors. We make a lot of decisions as humans based on those criteria. I don't see why trying to use these factors in combating obesity is inherently wrong.


Because bullying is wrong in all its manifestations. Because discrimination because of a person's obesity is not an effective public health tool to get the obese to lose weight. Because if people do not have the tools to lose weight safely and effectively keep it off, the only purpose it serves is to make the morally self-righteous sadists feel better.

Because medical science does not have the tools it needs to give obese people so they can reliably reach their target weight.

Are you seriously saying you would have an operation that has only a 2% chance of success? Because that is that "dieting" is all about.

If there's a 98% chance that a diet will "fail", and your health will be even worse for having failed, what is the advantage to the obese and to society of continuing to demand yo-yo dieting of the obese?
Lindsay6384

Joined: Aug 11
Posts: 70

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 11:35
positive reinforcement has always been more effective than negative...
โ€œWhat you get by reaching your destination is not nearly as important as what you will become by reaching your destination.โ€
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 675

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 11:55
But are your suggestions actually working?
Sure being nice is nice but sometimes perhaps nice is failing
jonnybadback

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 321

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 12:15
All these years of anti bullying for nothing
shmiller

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 497

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 12:23
I agree, Liv. Failure is powerful. But only when the failure prompts PERSONAL choice to act. Otherwise, it's just hurtful.
"The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of the hill" The Grateful Dead
BgIrn

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 97

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 12:25
No bullying is not productive. However, the new "fat acceptance" type of movement is nothing but enabling at it's best. Attitudes like the ones that demonstrate that being obese is not your own responsibility and should actually be embraced as "diversity" are hurting this country.

I understand that there are genuine medical issues that cause some to be overweight. I am not referring to these people. However I do believe there are less genuine cases of medical problems causing obesity than many believe.
shmiller

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 497

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 13:01
I totally agree. Well said.
"The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of the hill" The Grateful Dead
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 13:50
BgIrn wrote:
No bullying is not productive. However, the new "fat acceptance" type of movement is nothing but enabling at it's best. Attitudes like the ones that demonstrate that being obese is not your own responsibility and should actually be embraced as "diversity" are hurting this country.

I understand that there are genuine medical issues that cause some to be overweight. I am not referring to these people. However I do believe there are less genuine cases of medical problems causing obesity than many believe.


What is the alternative to "fat acceptance" in your mind? Public humiliation, job and housing discrimination, laws intended to deny people the right to eat normal foods?

You have not addressed the fact that medical science has no effective treatment to offer those who are overweight. A 2% success rate is not "success". It is a system failure.

Saying the overweight should continue to "try harder" at something which simply is not working is laying the blame on those who are overweight. You are saying it is their fault they are fat, and it is a moral failure that they failed to overcome insurmountable odds to conquer something on their own that doctors have no effective treatment for.

So exactly what sort of "fat shaming" are you saying is acceptable and effective? Shall we key it to an acceptable suicide rate?
BgIrn

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 97

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Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 14:00
eKatherine wrote:
BgIrn wrote:
No bullying is not productive. However, the new "fat acceptance" type of movement is nothing but enabling at it's best. Attitudes like the ones that demonstrate that being obese is not your own responsibility and should actually be embraced as "diversity" are hurting this country.

I understand that there are genuine medical issues that cause some to be overweight. I am not referring to these people. However I do believe there are less genuine cases of medical problems causing obesity than many believe.


You have not addressed the fact that medical science has no effective treatment to offer those who are overweight. Saying they should continue to "try harder" at something which simply is not working is laying the blame on those who are overweight. You are saying it is their fault they are fat, and it is a moral failure that they failed to overcome insurmountable odds to conquer something on their own that doctors have no effective treatment for.


I've often agreed with much you've said in the past because you give sound advice, but this comment is disingenuous.

Is it so insurmountable to simply not consume so much? There is no "mysterious galactic force" that causes obesity. And I also don't believe that medicine owes any one a treatment when the "treatment" is so obvious and simple.

I have seen so many posts here as well as other sites of people that eat properly and give up after a few weeks of trying with the comment "nothing works". Come on, it's only been a few weeks.

If you want to place blame, put it on the "instant gratification" ideology of the majority of Americans. Thinking the medical community should offer a "treatment" for obesity goes hand in hand with this.

Being misinformed or uneducated is not a moral failure.



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