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paperiniko

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 343

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Posted: 26 Dec 2012, 04:23
sweeteners do not make you gain weight by themselves. For some it works that way because they feel they have the licence to indulge on other foods
Delniyaa

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 1

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Posted: 26 Dec 2012, 18:37
It's true! It doesn't have any calorie, but It changes your taste to crave for sweets more than before.
riocaz

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 657

      quote  
Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 06:39
And your proof for that is what? Personal experience? Because for me I drink them when I am craving something sweet, and the craving goes away...

I think it's all psychological.

42" jeans(25/01/2013) 40"(28/02/2013) 38"(20/03/2013) 36"(25/05/2013)
Down from 60" waist jeans since June 21st 2012.

Still keeping to my 26" jeans, but they are too tight for comfort. too many tasty things in the US, and over Xmas.

Onwards and Downwards! Smile
http://www.menu52.com/
Terrylm1

Joined: Feb 12
Posts: 79

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Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 07:22
It might be part of the problem, but I don't think it is the single root cause. It should certainly help you loose weight if you cut out your diet sodas. Aside from the current debate of whether or not they're cancer causing, they also contain a strong preservative... Something I read somewhere (can't remember where) that I will never forget... “Perhaps you have a lumpy @$$ because you are preserving your fat cells with diet soda. Don't know how true it is, but that is something that has always stuck with me.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

      quote  
Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 09:24
Terrylm1 wrote:
It might be part of the problem, but I don't think it is the single root cause. It should certainly help you loose weight if you cut out your diet sodas.


I wouldn't say that it's "certain" at all - some people find that diet soda helps with weight loss, by satisfying cravings for other food or drink. I drink the stuff in moderation, but I know people that down 2 liters or more of it per day - and it facilitates their weight loss, because they're counting the rest of their calories.


Quote:
Aside from the current debate of whether or not they're cancer causing, they also contain a strong preservative... Something I read somewhere (can't remember where) that I will never forget... “Perhaps you have a lumpy @$$ because you are preserving your fat cells with diet soda. Don't know how true it is, but that is something that has always stuck with me.


Potassium benzoate is probably the most common preservative in the diet sodas sold in the US. There's no plausible mechanism by which it would interfere with the oxidation of body fat in a calorie deficit, and not surprisingly there's no evidence that it does so.

I'm also not aware of any reliable evidence that it causes or even increases the risk of any health problems in humans, at the levels that it would be consumed even by a heavy soda drinker. But if you prefer your drinks without potassium benzoate, soda manufacturers are probably the only people that would take issue with that.

eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

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Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 10:34
Many people claim that diet sodas have helped them lose weight. Many others claim to use them to manage their weight, though most users are not at their ideal weight and may even be gaining. Despite enormous quantities of these products sold, obesity is increasing. So they are at best not a factor overall, at worst complicit.

Studies show that most people whose sole weight management strategy consists of using artificial sweeteners make bad food choices because of the sweeteners and gain weight.

It's a crutch. Relying on diet soda means you are not letting go of the sugar craving. That may or may not be an issue when maintenance comes around. It's a fact that some diet sweeteners trick the body into responding as though sugar has been consumed, resulting in release of insulin, which will make someone even hungrier.

I know someone who lost weight and kept it off and thinks diet sodas helped. I also know lots of users who are not making progress.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 11:04
eKatherine wrote:
Many people claim that diet sodas have helped them lose weight. Many others claim to use them to manage their weight, though most users are not at their ideal weight and may even be gaining. Despite enormous quantities of these products sold, obesity is increasing. So they are at best not a factor overall, at worst complicit.


We can't say that; it's possible that obesity rates would be even higher if diet soda was unavailable. Enormous quantities of water are also consumed every day; this is not a factor or "complicit" in the obesity epidemic either. At the moment there is no research showing a causal relationship between diet soda consumption and weight gain, or inhibition of weight loss, and it's obviously inappropriate to draw conclusions about causation from the existing epidemiological studies and correlations that have been observed - particularly for a product that is marketed to people who wish to lose weight. Not at all surprising there would be a correlation between diet soda consumption and BMI.

Quote:
Studies show that most people whose sole weight management strategy consists of using artificial sweeteners make bad food choices because of the sweeteners and gain weight.


I think this internal mental bargaining is the biggest practical hazard of diet soda. Saving 150 calories on a glass of regular soda will cause some people to justify greater calorie intake elsewhere in the diet.

Quote:
It's a crutch. Relying on diet soda means you are not letting go of the sugar craving.


This is unnecessarily judgmental. There may be a number of reasons why someone drinks diet soda that are unrelated to a sugar craving - and that's assuming that "sugar craving" is something worth eliminating. That may or may not be the case for any given person, and in my opinion, the hazards of food avoidance are very serious. Sugar may the demon du jour but categorical food avoidance will be counterproductive for many people - though not all, of course.
To call diet soda a "crutch" implies some sort of defect, disability, or weakness in the drinker.

Quote:
That may or may not be an issue when maintenance comes around. It's a fact that some diet sweeteners trick the body into responding as though sugar has been consumed, resulting in release of insulin, which will make someone even hungrier.


I've heard this said many times, and I haven't seen compelling evidence for it. To the contrary, most of the artificial sweeteners commonly used in the US have been found to cause no insulin response (never mind that insulin is an appetite suppressant - another reason that insulin resistance is problematic), e.g.:

Aspartame ingestion with and without carbohydrate in phenylketonuric and normal subjects: effect on plasma concentrations of amino acids, glucose, and insulin. - No effect of aspartame on insulin levels

Effect of aspartame and protein, administered in phenylalanine-equivalent doses, on plasma neutral amino acids, aspartate, insulin and glucose in man. - Same.

Effects of oral ingestion of sucralose on gut hormone response and appetite in healthy normal-weight subjects. - No insulin response from sucralose.

There's been some in vitro evidence of an insulin response to ace-K in rats, and some equivocal evidence that co-ingesting ace-K with glucose might produce a greater insulin response than glucose alone. But no evidence (that I know of) that ace-K produces an insulin response in humans when consumed without glucose.

If you've got some links to relevant human studies, I'd be curious to see them.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

      quote  
Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 11:15
It's a "double standard" when you demand a different level of evidence for your pet theories than ones you don't support. It is nothing but a fantasy to imagine that increasing levels of artificial sweetener intake at the same time as obesity increase have someone kept people from becoming even more obese. There is no support whatever for this.

The "evidence" that diet sodas help a few isolated individuals is anecdotal. There is clear evidence that people in the general population use it in ways that end up increasing their caloric intake and their weight.

Most people eventually go off their diet and return to normal eating habits. What then?
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 12:19
eKatherine wrote:
It's a "double standard" when you demand a different level of evidence for your pet theories than ones you don't support.


Assuming you're responding to me, I don't know what you mean by this. When did I make a claim about causation that I supported with only epidemiological studies?

Quote:
It is nothing but a fantasy to imagine that increasing levels of artificial sweetener intake at the same time as obesity increase have someone kept people from becoming even more obese. There is no support whatever for this.


Fortunately, I didn't claim that. I said it's possible - which it is. It's a logical fallacy to claim that an increase in the prevalence of obesity is either caused by, or not inhibited by, the availability of artificial sweeteners. It very well may be the case that without them, consumption of soda or other foods with actual calories would be greater, as would the incidence of obesity.
This is just a theory, as you point out, but it's not one to which I subscribe. Labeling it a "fantasy" is not a substitute for evidence, however.

Quote:
There is clear evidence that people in the general population use it in ways that end up increasing their caloric intake and their weight.


I don't doubt this, and I acknowledged it in my post. It's a well-known phenomenon - the (health) halo effect. That does not mean that it's something that will happen to every person - which was the point of my own anecdote. Whatever clear evidence you're relying upon for this claim, please share it (this is not a dispute or a challenge, I just want to know what your evidence is so I can evaluate it myself). I am guessing that it will support the idea that many people do not increase total calorie consumption with diet sodas in their diet, but that many will.

See, e.g.:
Satiety scores and satiety hormone response after sucrose-sweetened soft drink compared with isocaloric semi-skimmed milk and with non-caloric soft drink: a controlled trial. - consumption of sugary drinks led to greater total energy consumption than did artificially-sweetened drinks, which caused no more calorie consumption in the next meal than did water.

Again, this is not to say that diet soda may be of no help for all people that do not count calories - I am sure for many it is counterproductive. But given that it has zero calories and there's little evidence that it increases total appetite, what we know right now doesn't justify the conclusion that it's of no value to anyone, or should be categorically avoided.
astrid a

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 30

      quote  
Posted: 27 Dec 2012, 19:24
Try caffiene free sugar free coke, if you get a headache then you have become addicted tyo the caffiene. I used to be addicted to coffee & thought I would die after a day without it, the physical symptoms were awful. If you go without the caffiene for a day or 2 & have no headache then you probably aren't doing yourself much harm, you obviously know that you shouldn't be overdoing it too much, but there are worse things you could be drinking. 2 things to bear in mind though, large volumes of any liquid will stretch your stomach & make you feel less full when you eat & if you have any problems with bladder weakness the experts recommend you don't drink caffienated drinks as they flood the bladder by making liquids transit quicker.n Good luck with losing your excess weight
Sometimes the only thing in life that you can control is what you put in your mouth!
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

      quote  
Posted: 28 Dec 2012, 09:18
Nimm wrote:
Quote:
It is nothing but a fantasy to imagine that increasing levels of artificial sweetener intake at the same time as obesity increase have someone kept people from becoming even more obese. There is no support whatever for this.


Fortunately, I didn't claim that. I said it's possible - which it is.


Other things that are equally likely to be keeping Americans from gaining even more weight, according to your logic:

Cancer
Eating over a pound of sugar a day. Hey, I bet it prevents diabetes, too!
Crash diets
Diabetes itself
Auto accidents
Snackwells
Fast food
Snacking

You just threw in the towel on your own argument when you made that up.
riocaz

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 657

      quote  
Posted: 28 Dec 2012, 10:36
ekatherine there is a difference between correlation and causation.

Yes there is a correlation between the availability of artificial sweeteners and obesity...

However it doesn't follow that artificial sweeteners are a direct cause of obesity.

42" jeans(25/01/2013) 40"(28/02/2013) 38"(20/03/2013) 36"(25/05/2013)
Down from 60" waist jeans since June 21st 2012.

Still keeping to my 26" jeans, but they are too tight for comfort. too many tasty things in the US, and over Xmas.

Onwards and Downwards! Smile
http://www.menu52.com/
selenap20

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 88

      quote  
Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 08:52
I don't drink anything but water beause I know it's good for me and the risk of study coming out in 2 years saying it causes cancer or something else god awful is unlikely. I also don't like soda or store bought juices because they make me feel bloated and sluggish. We can't eat perfectly, so I think anything (within reason) in moderation is alright. If you're able to stop it cold turkey, I would take that route but if not, cut it down a little and increase the water intake.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,286

      quote  
Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 16:56
It's really a matter of "glass is half-empty/glass is half-full" points of view. The thread was started by a person who drinks large amounts of diet soda and is getting bigger. He wants to know if that is "the cause". The response that would be closest to the truth is that it might be a factor, but that if it doesn't seem to be helping him, he might want to consider making changes.

I don't see why people are encouraging him to continue doing something that clearly is not working for him, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

As far as correlation and causation is concerned, we can look at Type II diabetes. Type II diabetics tend to be obese. The assumption is that obesity caused their diabetes, but the connection is no more clear than that incipient diabetes caused their obesity, even now that a lot of experimental research has been done. The idea that all the sugar they were eating protected them from even more complications of diabetes is a fantasy.
seafood_eate...

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 30

      quote  
Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 17:16
Diet soda, for whatever reason, is correlated with over eating. Same with bread and pasta. Some people handle it well and others badly. Most people would be better off without. Eat your veggies! And your fish!
deadcenter

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 187

      quote  
Posted: 01 Jan 2013, 22:24
Serenity1956 wrote:
Does anyone think diet coke is the real culprit?:


NO!


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Striving to be Better"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Remember that a negative look from someone else may be nothing more than him or her being constipated! ;-p"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Maintenance is not a destination"
“Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation leans on the doorbell.”
riocaz

Joined: Jun 12
Posts: 657

      quote  
Posted: 02 Jan 2013, 06:17
eKatherine wrote:
It's really a matter of "glass is half-empty/glass is half-full" points of view. The thread was started by a person who drinks large amounts of diet soda and is getting bigger. He wants to know if that is "the cause". The response that would be closest to the truth is that it might be a factor, but that if it doesn't seem to be helping him, he might want to consider making changes.

I don't see why people are encouraging him to continue doing something that clearly is not working for him, but I'm sure they have their reasons.


You have inserted your own opinion into the original poster's question. They asked: Is Diet coke was the reason I am gaining weight around their stomach?

No one is suggesting he/she does anything they just answered the question. The factual answer being:

No the Diet Coke is not making you gaining weight. It's the stuff with actual calories in, you consume that's doing that.

There is some other supplemental bits to that which may affect their weight, but it's not the Diet Coke making them gain weight.

Diet Coke doesn't somehow cancel out eating a ton of calories elsewhere in your overall diet either for that matter...

It might make some people crave sugary things. However in the absence of any actual studies on this phenomenon. The "evidence" is anecdotal. Only the original poster will know if it's true for them. BUT! Even then it is not the DIET COKE making them gain weight!

Is it better to limit/reduce your consumption of artificially sweetened things in general? Probably.
Should the original poster maybe drink less coke than they drink water? Almost definitely.
Will that affect them losing weight? Possibly.
If it does will the result be psychological? Possibly.

42" jeans(25/01/2013) 40"(28/02/2013) 38"(20/03/2013) 36"(25/05/2013)
Down from 60" waist jeans since June 21st 2012.

Still keeping to my 26" jeans, but they are too tight for comfort. too many tasty things in the US, and over Xmas.

Onwards and Downwards! Smile
http://www.menu52.com/
tammyb440

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 5

      quote  
Posted: 04 Jan 2013, 19:09
Ok so the fight is obviously on, but did anyone mention sodium levels in carbonated beverages? I don't drink soda never have. I stick to coffee, tea and water. I'm an admitted caffeine addict and drink I think I had a soda a month ago? maybe more? I don't know but my suggestion is iced tea. If you need it sweet use honey. I don't think it's a good idea to drink anything that will clean corrosion from your cars battery terminals. And before someone says that's a myth I've actually done. Just because I was curious.
Wyattj99

Joined: Jul 12
Posts: 213

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jan 2013, 09:49
I do water all the way. I USED to drink Diet sodas for two years and I gained. It took me three months to get rid of cravings of diet soda but I did it and love it! I love my water. Now once in a while I enjoy a soda not diet...but nothing that would hurt me Smile Yes I think diet or regular on a daily basis is not good for anyone due to my experience.
1st Goal: 150 lbs
2nd Goal: 135 lbs
3rd Goal: 125 lbs


Jamie
mikefarinha

Joined: Jun 11
Posts: 443

      quote  
Posted: 05 Jan 2013, 11:26
I will very occasionally (maybe 6 times a year) have a soda if it is made with some sort of natural sweetener (cane sugar, stevia, etc.) What I've found to be much more healthy and satisfies my urge is Kombucha. You can now find it at most grocery stores.

It isn't carbonated but rather fermented so it is fizzy but more like champagne rather than soda.

Because it is fermented it is quite healthy since it is full of live cultures (i.e. yogurt) and is helpful for digestion and your liver.

The down side is that it is pricy ($2.50-$3.00/bottle).

It doesn't taste like soda but it is sweet with a slight vinegar tinge. My 3yo son loves to drink it.

Whether diet soda makes one fat directly, indirectly, or not at all doesn't really matter in my mind. Look at all the crap that it is filled with, it simply isn't something that is healthy.

-Mike
"Eat as if your life depends on it!"



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