‎"Americans are fat and sick because they eat too much and don't exercise enough." - n

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Cthulhu

Joined: Dec 11
Posts: 167

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Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 19:54
Ever heard of French Bread and the French Paradox...can't just be wheat belly.

“The last of the human freedoms is to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances.” ~Victor E. Frankl
jduke85

Joined: Jan 12
Posts: 3

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 00:41
I used to believe all carbs were evil, too. Until I realized that during some very financially poor times of my life, I literally lived on almost all carbs for years, and gained not a single lb. Held steady at 135 lbs at 5'7.

While I'm trying to get down to a leaner shape now, I do cut my carbs a bit - but not because carbs are evil. Because it forces me to eat better food to maintain my energy levels, make sure my hair doesn't fall out, and not eating as much of them means I don't feel constantly hungry, because I've filled my plate with more meat and veggies than potatoes. It also forces me to buy and consume vegetables that I typically wouldn't, and has expanded my palate to include a lot more meals and foods that I thought I wouldn't like.

I still eat a decent amount of carbs. I love nothing more than turkey on a good pumpernickel bread. Oats and brown rice are frequent guests on my plate. Whole wheat pasta is delish. I'm still losing fat at an acceptable rate, I'm not constantly in "no-carb headfog", and I'm keeping most of my hair. All bonuses, in my eyes.

Boiling it down to "Carbs = FAT" does a disservice to most people trying to lead a healthy, balanced lifestyle. I rather enjoy not obsessing with fanatical passion over every single thing I eat and whether it has the dreaded carb in it, like I (and many other people) have mistakenly done before in our lives.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 13:03
It's possible to have a "fanatical passion" about any sort of diet or nutritional plan, including one that's high in carbs and whole grains. There are more fanatical low-fat/low protein/high carb dieters (and those who aren't even on a diet but continually eat that way) than low-carbers.

I enjoy eating lots of meat, and I don't obsess. Especially I don't try to convince other people that it would be right for them, even though I know I've lost fat and gained muscle at the same time by doing it this way.
Fedaykin

Joined: May 11
Posts: 72

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 13:07
calories expended > calories consumed WILL generate weight loss, no matter who you are, what your genetics are, etc.

Basic, fundamental law of physics there.

Now, correctly determining the value of those two things and keeping the deficit is the tricky part.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 13:35
Unfortunately, Fedaykin, research does not support the idea that eating fewer calories and exercising more invariably leads to more weight loss. The stricter a regimen is, the harder it is to follow, and the more likely real people in the real world will be unable to stay with it, regardless of what the theoretical possibilities might be.
Fedaykin

Joined: May 11
Posts: 72

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 13:45
eKatherine wrote:
Unfortunately, Fedaykin, research does not support the idea that eating fewer calories and exercising more invariably leads to more weight loss. The stricter a regimen is, the harder it is to follow, and the more likely real people in the real world will be unable to stay with it, regardless of what the theoretical possibilities might be.


You seem to have missed about half my posr.
Ellielight

Joined: Dec 12
Posts: 19

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 14:13
European are fat too, is everywhere the problem of obesity.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 14:52
Fedaykin wrote:
eKatherine wrote:
Unfortunately, Fedaykin, research does not support the idea that eating fewer calories and exercising more invariably leads to more weight loss. The stricter a regimen is, the harder it is to follow, and the more likely real people in the real world will be unable to stay with it, regardless of what the theoretical possibilities might be.


You seem to have missed about half my posr.


Not at all. Nothing is as simple as it seems.
Turtledrumme...

Joined: Jun 10
Posts: 52

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 15:24
Ummm eKatherine I think what Fedaykin meant was that if you expend more energy than you take in no matter what you will lose weight specifically because the energy has to come from somewhere. It may not be healthy weight to lose, or even specifically fat. But if you expend more than you take in it will be taken from somewhere inside your body as according to the laws of thermodynamics. The energy can't just appear.
"The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand, and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task."
-Vince Lombardi
erika2633

Joined: Nov 11
Posts: 799

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Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 18:35
Ugh, I thought this thread was dead.. guess not! Mlasell, I don't know why you felt compelled to copy and paste that whole huge thing and muck up the forums "for me." I actually have the entire Wheat Belly book downloaded onto my phone and iPad, I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. I just don't see the point in constantly villainizing one food group over another.

For goodness sake, I'm going to go "Phoebe" on you right now, and even if you've never seen an episode of FRIENDS, I hope the sentiment still sticks.

'Wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the world was flat? And, up until what, 50 years ago, scientists all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until they split it open, and this whole mess of crap came out.

Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?'

Fat's the culprit. No wait, sugar is what's bad. Nope you have to quit carbs. Oh wait, it just has to be high protein. Artificial sweeteners are making you fat. Oops, it's actually just high fructose corn syrup. No, no.. it's fat again. Wait, we already said that. Ok, it's definitely wheat.

Oh, is it *definitely* wheat?


Someone who is busier than you is working out right now.
There will come a day when you can no longer do this. Today is not that day.
Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

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Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 16:45
when it comes to staying trim and lean many people will invariably look to some far fetched hocus pocus idea: carbs , atkins, eating diet bars instead of normal food, standing on vibrating platforms, metabolic problems etc, etc,

Rather than just face the fact that MAYBE they just eat too much and move too little.

just a generation ago people were so much slimmer nothing genetic has happened in that time just bad habits.

look at so many non western countries people are trim because they eat to live not live to eat
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 18:49
The fact is we keep hearing messages that you can lose weight without being hungry and without working hard. It's understandable that people would believe them.

A lot of changes in the American diet have happened between then and now. There are many factors. The idea that all Americans suddenly got lazy and gluttonous at the same time is beyond bizarre.

Spacey47

Joined: Apr 12
Posts: 916

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Posted: 19 Dec 2012, 23:29
I think that there is natural human tendency to over indulge when there is a cheap supply of high calorific food,couple that with labour saving devices, almost universal access to cars or public transport and a greater number of sedentary jobs and life styles such as tv , computer games.


People no longer eat when they are hungry but as a social and emotional outlet as well, with easy access to fast food and the massive calories they contain many people don't even actually prepare meals anymore they just heat stuff up
eat it and then SIT down!


Kids learn bad habits from their parents who don't encourage them to exercise or take them to the park just watch TV and play games, they get rewarded with food as well.


When I was a kid everyone knew who the fat kid was now its normal to be fat!
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 01:26
In our country we have had those things all along. Saying that Americans have suddenly become gluttonous and lazy (as you are) is saying that it is a morality problem, not a medical problem. And obviously, there is nothing that can or should be done about those people's morals. Because it's their own fault for choosing to be immoral.
jonnybadback

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 321

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 03:21
Spacey that is a real broad brush you are painting people with. Are you basing your comments on your own experiences. Are you blaming your parents as to why you put weight on as a child and that as an adult you did not have the intelligence to make your own life choices.

As a child i was slim. We got exercise at school. We ate food that needed to be cooked. As an adult i ate when i was hungry and could easily go a day without food but i also ate socially. The reason i put weight on was due to an injury

which meant my lifestyle became sedentary. it was nothing to do with my parents or lifestyle. I made the choice to change. I made the thought process.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 07:56
As a child I was fat. At that time, nobody exercised. There was no concept that adults should exercise, and those who did exercise for its own sake (rather than say playing tennis because they liked the game) were considered strange. Some people did more of that sort of thing. We were intellectuals and read books. My father and mother both had desk jobs at the time. A recent study showed that Americans during that time period were not more physically active than today.

So whose fault was it that I was a fat child who grew up during an era of crash diets to become a fat adult? Why the need to blame?
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 781

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 09:16
eKatherine wrote:

Not at all. Nothing is as simple as it seems.


There are factors like will power and being motivated, but yes, things are THAT simple. Calories in, calories out. Consistency. Use whichever "tricks" that help you adhere to a calorie deficit and voila.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
Diablo360x

Joined: Jul 11
Posts: 781

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 09:30
Mlasell wrote:
The question is what can be done to reverse this societal slow motion disaster. Yelling insults on a website won't get us anywhere. How about some constructive ideas?


It will always be a losing battle so the better way would be to educate people on how much energy they need. If they are serious about their health they need to exercise and keep an eye on their intake. Calorie counting is the only surefire method. You can "wing" it and make progress, but why? In that scenario you will never get a good gauge on your daily burn, you will plateau get frustrated and quit.

If they refuse, they do not care enough and will fail or never get started.
Love your food or risk failure. No quick fixes, this is a lifestyle change. No extremes are needed just consistency.
jonnybadback

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 321

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Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 09:44
Unfortunately calorie deficit does not always work if you are on meds. Meds can severely effect weight loss and gain regardless of calorie in and out.
eKatherine

Joined: Aug 12
Posts: 1,266

      quote  
Posted: 20 Dec 2012, 09:57
Diablo360x wrote:
eKatherine wrote:

Not at all. Nothing is as simple as it seems.


There are factors like will power and being motivated, but yes, things are THAT simple. Calories in, calories out. Consistency. Use whichever "tricks" that help you adhere to a calorie deficit and voila.


You quoted me exactly the same way before to explain that everything is much simpler than it seems.

Life is not simple. It is complex, and we are the sum total of our experiences, our individual genetics, genetics of our species, medical histories, and cultural programming. The idea that we are 100% in control of our unconscious mind and our bodily processes is counterproductive. It merely places blame and provides no path for those who find unexplainable troubles.

And people do find inexplicable troubles. You can write them off because they don't agree with your hypotheses, but it doesn't change reality.

The reality is that of those who go on a diet to lose weight, only maybe 2% reach their goal weight and keep it off for a period of years. Would you opt for an operation that had only a 2% success rate? Would you recommend it to a loved one?

Everything is not known. Science has not declared "mission accomplished", closed up shop, and gone home.

Free will is greatly overrated.



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