The Protein Myth

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PantherIII

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 282

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 11:06
Haha, I will definitely indulge for easter.. However, you will also find me on the elliptical on the highest setting for about an hour, lol.
Logging the Spike Diet w/my journal. Add me as a buddy if you want to see how it goes.
GilmoreGirl

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 401

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 11:44
Wow, I've really enjoyed reading this! As a vegan, I obviously side with the high-carb/lower-protein approach.

But I am not saying that I agree that is THE best way for everyone! For me, it works. I love not eating animal protein, it just makes sense for me.

At some point in the future, it may not make sense anymore, and I may consider going back to a more omniverous diet. But right now, it makes sense, and it's healthy.

I'm actually writing a paper about how a vegan diet can be just as nutritionally adequate as an omniverous diet. I'm not going to say that it's BETTER, just that it's just as good. Smile
mini goals:
170 - 50 pounds gone! (reached October 2, 2010)
155 - no longer overweight! (reached January 22, 2011)
145 - 75 Pounds gone! (reached May 14, 2011)
135 - ultimate goal weight!

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k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 12:08
GG, that sounds like a great paper. I'd be interested to know what kind of references you come across. Always looking for new reading materials!
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radiochick

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 303

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 14:13
Update, it looks like my current mix is 45% carb, 30% fat and 25% protein. That's making sure I get 100+ grams of protien a day. I think that's pretty balanced.

So, I guess even though I say protein is really important to me... I'm just fine with 25%.
birdybrain

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 38

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 20:23
k8yk wrote:
If you listen to your body- and I don't mean solely your tastebuds, I mean all of your senses, including how you feel physically and digestively- you will not end up eating nothing but high fat junk because let's be honest, no matter how good it tastes, eating too much of it makes you feel like crap.

If you don't realize this, you are not listening to your body.

"Listen to your body, but if it doesn't say what mine says, you're doing it wrong"? Wink
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 22:12
Not at all! Different things work for different people. All I am saying is you do not Need excessive amounts of protein, so if you don't want to consume it, don't. And don't bother stressing over it either.

Nobody's body craves nutritionless junk- if you think it does, you're not listening to your body, you're succumbing to other reasons people crave foods.
My blog, This is not a Diet:
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birdybrain

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 38

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 22:29
Just teasing a little because of your use of "high fat" appended to junk. Totes down with nutritionless, though.
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 22:48
It says "high fat junk" in my original post, no? Nothing inherently wrong with fat. I didn't, and wouldn't, say that. I don't think any macronutrient is inherently bad. Junk is the problem.
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Wendyree

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 12

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 22:52
I ate a vegan plant-based diet for a month as part of a cleanse. When i looked up the nutrients and did the math, I was surprised to find out that TEN PERCENT of my calories were coming from protein. This was without beans or grains, just lots of leafy greens.

How do cows get their protein? From grass!

Keep eating spinach, kale, and Swiss chard. You'll get enough protein if you eat these regularly and cut out high calorie, low nutrient foods like bread.

Hermiones...

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 395

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 23:13
Propaganda is dangerous, no matter the source or the persuasion of those advancing it. And bad research and analysis exists on all sides of every issue. For example, one of the most visible advocates of the China Study, T. Colin Campbell, has been discredited because of the generalizations he made, approaching the results of the study from his dedicated vegan bias.

In fact, many researchers have raised significant questions about the reliability of The China Study as a basis for drawing conclusions about the relationship between consuming meat and health, for example:

The China Study report lists only 6 statistically significant correlations between meat-eating and disease mortality. Further, 4 of the correlations are negative, which indicates that the mortality rate for that disease decreased as meat consumption increased. The two diseases that had positive correlations with meat consumption are schistosomiasis, a parasite, and pneumoconiosis and dust disease.
Thus, the direct evidence of the study is hardly the condemnation of meat consumption that veg*n dietary advocates may claim it to be. It should be noted here that correlation is a measure only of linear relationships, and other analytical methods may yield different results. Despite the possibility of the existence of more complicated statistical relationships, it seems quite odd, given the interpretations of the study made by veg*n dietary advocates, that meat intake generally did not correlate with disease mortality. (See table 5033, pp. 634-635 of Junshi et al. [1990].)

Ecological studies (like the China Study) generate hypotheses, they do not prove them. Campbell and Junshi [1994] concisely state this limitation (p. 1155S):

First, this study is ecological and includes 6,500 individuals residing in 130 villages. Thus according to widely held assumptions, any inferences concerning cause-and-effect relationships should be considered to be hypothetical only, with validation to be provided only by intervention or prospective analytic studies on individuals.

Thus we note that the China Study requires backup clinical studies before making inferences or drawing conclusions. The main hypothesis of the China Study is whether diets that are predominantly plant foods reduce chronic diseases. However, some veg*n advocates go far beyond the main hypothesis of the study, and claim it proves that veg*n diets are "better" than all omnivore diets. Further, such claims may be made without supporting clinical studies, and without regard for the actual range of diets included in the study. (The latter point is discussed later herein.)http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-8e.shtml

Kate -- I'm sure you didn't mean to, but to me your original post seems to imply that those of us who do not subscribe to veganism must not have done our own research...that if we'd done our homework, none of us would be eating high protein diets. I can only speak for myself, but I've done a lot of reading on nutrition, and while I still don't always eat the way I should, I have a pretty fair grasp of what makes for healthy eating. I eat vegetarian and vegan meals during the week -- not because I find the claims linking meat-eating and cancer to be compelling, but because I find the data linking saturated fat to all kinds of bad things to be incontrovertible.

I agree with you -- we should all be as informed as possible about the choices we make in our diets. But it's also important that we recognize that just because we adopt a particular perspective doesn't mean that everyone who disagrees with us is automatically either ignorant or the victim of propagandists.

k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 21 Mar 2011, 23:25
I can speak only for myself- I kept worrying about my protein consumption out of ignorance. (Just like I followed a very low fat diet out of ignorance) I read a few things that told me to, and I believed them.

I was vegetarian long before I cared about my health- for moral reasons having to do with animal cruelty and torture. And people were always questioning me as if I was doing something wrong. Since so many people seemed to be worried about vegetarians not getting enough protein, I assumed it was a legitimate concern.

I definitely realize people other than me have done research- and I realize that for every study that says one thing, you can find ten more that say the opposite, so obviously we will all arrive at different conclusions. But I would be willing to wager that there are quite a few of us who have never researched these things, and simply believed what we were told. Up until last year- I was one of them.
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kstubblefiel...

Joined: May 10
Posts: 1,400

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Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 00:17
Isn't Spam high in protein?

Kat | NO EXCUSES, JUST RESULTS | Next milestone - 256: 60 lbs lost
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k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 00:29
And fat and sodium! Not that there's anything wrong with that Wink
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mdep1229

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 387

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Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 08:35
Quote:
How do cows get their protein? From grass!


Errr, that is not a valid argument. Ruminants has multiple stomachs and much, much longer intestines populated with bacteria that could break down and help digest fiber and extract the nutrition from plant base matters. Humans don't.

Besides, I don't aspire to look like a cow! Laughing

sngglebnny

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 153

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Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 11:16
@mdep1229 I am screaming with laughter right now. I also do not aspire to look like a cow!!!
Dieting is like religion. There are the basic rules that everyone should follow. The rest you personalize to a lifestyle for the best results.

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Jackie_Snape...

Joined: Feb 11
Posts: 82

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Posted: 22 Mar 2011, 19:56
Since slowly cutting all meat, dairy and eggs from my diet I haven't had any problems with my body functioning and working properly. Ok, I had a brief period where I was almost starving (lets not get too into that)and I started getting bruises and I felt dizzy and horrible. Now I'm getting back to normal. However, I'm constantly hearing conflicting stories on protein. High protein, low carbs/fat, low protien and carbs and high fat...and all different sorts of variations. I suppose it depends on the person, but being vegan it's hard(for me) to get 70+ grams of protein or to get -100 carbs(much less -20) in a day. I'm not really sure if there is a "right" way to proportion it, but I feel as if I'm doing fine. Other than the mental issues I have, my body has been going steady for almost a year.
mossa

Joined: Mar 11
Posts: 1

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Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 09:41
I was told 60grms for a veg is good
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 29 Mar 2011, 11:03
Jackie_Snape80 wrote:
Since slowly cutting all meat, dairy and eggs from my diet I haven't had any problems with my body functioning and working properly. Ok, I had a brief period where I was almost starving (lets not get too into that)and I started getting bruises and I felt dizzy and horrible. Now I'm getting back to normal. However, I'm constantly hearing conflicting stories on protein. High protein, low carbs/fat, low protien and carbs and high fat...and all different sorts of variations. I suppose it depends on the person, but being vegan it's hard(for me) to get 70+ grams of protein or to get -100 carbs(much less -20) in a day. I'm not really sure if there is a "right" way to proportion it, but I feel as if I'm doing fine. Other than the mental issues I have, my body has been going steady for almost a year.


I think we all get a bit flustered by all the advice. That's one thing that made me post this thread. I was feeling really good about what I was eating but then Oh Noes! I'm not getting "enough" protein or I'm getting "too much" carbs or "too much" fats. However, the more I read, the more I believe it's really not that important whether you get 60g of protein or 70 or 100. I mean really, how can anybody know exactly how many grams of anything YOU personally need? We're all different sizes and we lead different lives. I don't think there's one number that works for all.

My boyfriend, who is a meat-eating protein obsessed muscle guy, was the one who finally told me that if I felt fine I should quit worrying. It seems crazy that I should worry about these numbers when my current diet is meeting so many recommendations and is just rationally "healthy"- very little processed foods, lots of veggies, lots of whole grains, lots of healthy fats, a very reasonable calorie intake (around 2000 for maintenance)- I mean really? What more do I want? I feel much better now just trusting myself. I feel good. And if I am not getting "enough" protein, I assume I will see some adverse effect. I have not, so I will continue eating this veganish-vegetarian diet until my body tells me otherwise and forget all the hype about grams and percentages.

Eat real food. Mostly plants. Works for me.
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Chunkin

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 27

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Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:00
Saw this article today and thought of this thread:

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2011/03/31/To-lose-weight-stop-grazing-eat-protein/UPI-89811301580121/


To lose weight, stop grazing, eat protein
Published: March. 31, 2011 at 10:02 AM


WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind., March 31 (UPI) -- An English breakfast and two other square meals a day, with lots of protein, may be key for those losing weight to feel full, U.S. researchers say.

Heather J. Leidy of the University of Missouri, a postdoctoral researcher at Purdue for this study, said 27 obese and overweight men were divided into a high-protein consuming group and a normal-protein consuming group, but all ate a calorie-restricted diet for 12 weeks -- 750 calories less than their normal diet -- an average of about 2,400 calories per person a day.

The normal-protein diet was composed of 14 percent protein, 60 percent from carbohydrate and 26 percent from fat, while the high-protein diet had the same amount of fat, but 25 percent of energy from protein and 49 percent from carbohydrate.

"We found that when eating high amounts of protein, men who were trying to lose weight felt fuller throughout the day; they also experienced a reduction in late-night desire to eat and had fewer thoughts of food," Leidy said in a statement.

"We also found that despite the common trend of eating smaller, more frequent meals, eating frequency had relatively no beneficial impact on appetite control."

The research was funded by the National Pork Board, the American Egg Board, the Purdue Ingestive Behavior Research Center and the National Institutes of Health's Indiana Clinical and Translational Sciences Institute.

The findings are published in the journal Obesity.




Read more: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2011/03/31/To-lose-weight-stop-grazing-eat-protein/UPI-89811301580121/print/#ixzz1II9CGSq2
mdep1229

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 387

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Posted: 01 Apr 2011, 17:08
Disclaimer: the following is strictly my observation and opinion. Wink

I never buy that six or seven mini meal thing. I think most Americans use that as an excuse to eat non-stop. Meetings cannot be conducted without coffee and goodies, kids cannot play a short game without breaks for snacks, and people cannot even sit on their butt and watch a movie (exactly how strenuous is that?) without stuffing their face with food.

Not exactly sure what is the percentage of protein in my diet. The only three things I care about on my diet calender are: try to get 30g fiber, 45g protein, and limit everything to 1600 calories a day. And I don't feel hungry.



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