The Protein Myth

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k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:30
Pantherhill, I actually agree with everything you said, so no debate here on that one Wink Especially:
"Eat according to how you live, listen to your bodies, and don't starve your body of any essential carb/fat/protein."
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mammasix

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 378

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:37
I wanted to point out the webmd take on high-protein diets was really not in favor. I particulary wanted to point out this piece:
"There are no longer-term studies of high-protein diets, so the true long-term impact of the increased protein and fat consumption is unknown," says Watson. "Worries are that it will ultimately impair kidney function and lead to heart disease."

Honestly, I thought the whole article was a slam on Atkins.
God made man before women because you always make a rough draft before the final masterpiece (stolen from Coach's journal).
CMR

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 164

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:38
PantherIII wrote:
...Congratulations that pounds are dropping off the scale with your fad diet....


Which methods are you referring to exactly? Are you saying that just because someone counts points, carbs, or calories, they are on a fad diet and are doing it "wrong"? I can't say I agree with you 100%.

I've said this before in another thread, but most non-fad systems such as calorie counting, intake vs. output, Ketosis, etc. are backed up fairly well by science (**DICLAIMER** This is not intended for followers of the HGC deal.). It's when people stray from their chosen methodology, they gain fat and give up.

You say to do what we are going to do. Truth be told, most people are using this site for just that. Personally, my problem is not having an Off Switch. I know for a fact, as I've tried it, that I won't stick with Atkins. But I NEED a system like Weight Watchers (which is basically calorie counting) to HELP me stay in check.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Vernon Wormer, Faber College, Animal House

"I was sick of being fat..." - Drew Carey
kokusho

Joined: Jan 10
Posts: 416

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:39
Quote:
Eat according to how you live, listen to your bodies, and don't starve your body of any essential carb/fat/protein

But what if you love high fat foods and love protein and hate carbs so you are on a high fat low carb diet? You're "eating according to how you life", "listening to your body", NOT "starving your body of any essential macros". That situation would definitely contradict your previous statement of "I think high fat dieters are idiots".

Why are they idiots? Can you at least back that up?
"Going to war without France, is like going deer hunting without your accordion." -Norman Schwarzkopf
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:41
mammasix, that's what concerns me. People are making these dramatic changes to their diets without really fully understanding that the long-term effects are unknown. Eating an excess of protein (or carbs or fats) will have unknown consequences in the long term. Better to take a moderate approach, IMO.

I would like to point out that Atkins is a high fat diet, not high protein. As far as I understand, Atkins recommends 30% of your daily calories from protein- just like the typical American diet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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mammasix

Joined: Aug 10
Posts: 378

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:49
The article was very focused on Atkins as a high-fat, high-protein and low-carb. I haven't the slightest bit of knowledge on Atkins, but I though it was also just high-fat, low-carb. Anyone on the Atkins diet encouraged to eat high-protein?
God made man before women because you always make a rough draft before the final masterpiece (stolen from Coach's journal).
ctlss

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 2,452

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:53
Actually Kate, you are right....60-65% healthy fats, 25-30% protein, and 5-10% carbs. I eat an average of Carbohydrate (5%), Fat (65%), Protein (30%) (these are monthly averages).Smile
Let us be grateful to people who make us happy, they are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom.
~Marcel Proust~

The hippopatamus is a vegetarian and looks like a wall. Lions who eat only red meat are sleek and slim. Could it be that human nutritionists are on the wrong track?
~Erma Bombeck~

"Each morning when I open my eyes I say to myself: I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it. "
~Groucho Marx~


ctlss
k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 10:56
Yeah, I don't want anyone to see this post as an attack on the Atkins diet. That's not what it is. I do think people who don't know much about it equate Atkins to high protein, when in reality it's high fat. That's a different debate- one I'm not touching with a ten foot pole! lol Smile
My blog, This is not a Diet:
http://notsobigk.wordpress.com
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ctlss

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 2,452

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:01
As we get closer to our goal weight we learn to add more good carbs in and decrease the amount of fat, and by the time we are in maintenance the percentages are more along the lines of 45 fat, 30 protein, and 25 carbs.
Let us be grateful to people who make us happy, they are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom.
~Marcel Proust~

The hippopatamus is a vegetarian and looks like a wall. Lions who eat only red meat are sleek and slim. Could it be that human nutritionists are on the wrong track?
~Erma Bombeck~

"Each morning when I open my eyes I say to myself: I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it. "
~Groucho Marx~


ctlss
ctlss

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 2,452

      quote  
Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:02
I actually just read a very intersting article on the Paleo diet.
Let us be grateful to people who make us happy, they are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom.
~Marcel Proust~

The hippopatamus is a vegetarian and looks like a wall. Lions who eat only red meat are sleek and slim. Could it be that human nutritionists are on the wrong track?
~Erma Bombeck~

"Each morning when I open my eyes I say to myself: I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it. "
~Groucho Marx~


ctlss
Stella1964

Joined: Sep 10
Posts: 56

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:05
This whole thread is extremely contentious and I'm only chiming in because like most people here, I've been on every "diet" created, and like most, have lost/gained weight all my life. I read everything I can get my hands on and enjoy the perspective that's being offered here in this forum. I'd like to add my own perspectives for your consideration, based on my experience as noted above and also that being on Atkins is the FIRST time ever that I have not felt hungry and have actually lost weight. I enjoy this way of eating, it just feels right to me, although I do miss eating copious quantities of fruit esp in the summer. Aside from that, I feel strongly that no one is necessarily wrong in their opinions here. What alarms me most though is the quantity of "research" out there that contradicts everything and back again. Has anyone considered that Big Pharma and government conspiracies are at work here to make us all confused, and utlimately unhealthy? I don't know what the true answer is to the big question so all I can say is do what YOU think is right, feels right, and works for YOU, not anyone else.

Best,
Stella
Mmmily

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 115

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:26
I love these threads, I think healthy debate is great. I really don't have an opinion on the matter. I'm a meat eater most days, but I think vegetarians get a lot of criticism simply because they're the in minority of American diets and we are a nation of meat eaters. I actually hear more vegetarian criticism when people talk about dieting than I do about starvation cleanses, HCG, or Atkins. That's just weird and wrong. I don't think you need to eat meat.

I don't know what the ideal diet is, and honestly, I don't think about it too much because that would drive me crazy. I just try to eat a variety of unprocessed foods and buy as much organic as I can. I do believe the studies that show organic foods are richer in nutrients, and as a chemist I try to avoid chemicals outside of the lab as much as possible. Every week there is a new study that proves or contradicts something. I'm not onboard with the protein-cancer link. I generally agree with mdep, everything in moderation.
CMR

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 164

      quote  
Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:30
Stella1964 wrote:
Has anyone considered that Big Pharma and government conspiracies are at work here to make us all confused, and utlimately unhealthy?


I don't think that necessarily. I do think that the FDA's guidelines are intended to be a one-size-fits-all system in an environment where it is literally impossible to be so. The pharmacy companies are along for the same free ride as everyone else.

I also don't blame the pharmacy companies entirely either. At the end of the day, they are doing their job of developing drugs to treat conditions. Unfortunately, those conditions are all too often side-effects of other drugs prescribed by doctors who may/may not have all the facts, nor the inclination to gather said facts.

So begins a vicious circle of following faulty guidelines, treating side-effects of one drug with another, and prescribing other treatments to treat side-effects of the drug you are taking for another drug's side effects (Whew. confused yet?).

There's plenty of blame to go around. Let's not even get into the researchers and who funds all their competing studies.

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Vernon Wormer, Faber College, Animal House

"I was sick of being fat..." - Drew Carey
BellaIntelec...

Joined: Oct 10
Posts: 91

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:37
Well, this thread really made me rethink all this. I have started listening to how I feel when I eat something. From my observations, I feel more satisfied when I have a banana with peanut butter instead of a 100 calorie pack cookie. The 100 calorie packs leaves me wanting something more. Is it the protein? Don't know. Is it because of the processed food? Who knows. Also when I eat a bagel thin with just a pat of butter or jelly I get hungry quicker than if I had an oatmeal. Is it the fiber? I don't know.

What I'm observing in general is that I need to have my carbs mixed with some protein and vice versa. When I have a carb on it's own I feel unsatisfied and hungry soon afterwards. When I add a protein source to my carb serving I feel Great! Also, I can't have a protein source without some carb. It makes feel like I'm missing something, like my body has no gas to run on. I need both sources but protein and fiber help with satisfaction and fullness, while carbs helps "fill up my energy tank".

Does that make sense? Question
mdep1229

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 387

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:39
I thought of something else. When people bash high (or relatively higher) carb diets, we (and I am actually one of the higher-carbers) tend to defend it by saying not all carbs are equal. There are the "good" carbs from whole grains, veggies, fruits, and "bad" carbs from HFCS and refined, bleached, white flour.

So my question of this "protein cancer link" is, do they differential what kind of protein? (To answer my own question, and having designed "studies" before, it will be almost impossible to do so).

There are proteins from wild caught fish and grass-fed organic beef, and there are proteins from mass produced ground beef treated with ammonia (FDA allows the use of ammonia to kill microbes in ground beef) or antibiotic-hormone-puss containing milk.

k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:41
Bella I think it is wonderful you are listening to your body. I have found similar things. Like I've found I can't eat fruit in the afternoon or I get nauseous. Nuts are much better. Do I know exactly why? No. Could be the protein, could be the fat, could be that nuts have a lot less sugar.

A banana and peanutbutter is a very nutritious snack. The banana has all kinds of vitamins and minerals and fiber your body needs and the peanutbutter has fat and protein, both of which will fill you up. The 100 calorie packs are not very nutritious. They are mostly sugary stuff and empty calories. It doesn't surprise me at all that the banana and peanut butter fill you up more for longer.
My blog, This is not a Diet:
http://notsobigk.wordpress.com
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k8yk

Joined: Jan 09
Posts: 4,546

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:46
mdep, that is always one of my questions. When there are links between disease and meat, I want to know where the meat comes from. Is it the meat itself or how it is produced? I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. I can't unravel the complicated findings of The China Study. I don't entirely buy it, BTW, but I don't discount it either. I think there's probably some truth in it and some over-reaction. I am also aware I suffer from the confirmation bias on this one, because as a vegan-ish vegetarian, it corresponds with the way I eat now anyway. Just like I am happy to believe chocolate and red wine have awesome health benefits Wink

On my "moderation" diet where I no longer pay attention to the "pie chart" I end up getting about 10-15% of my calories from protein, and the rest divided evenly between fat and carbohydrates (40/40). That's just how it ends up. So I wouldn't say I'm on a high carb or low carb diet. Just balance. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Protein was the last thing I was worried about and I only recently decided not to care anymore.
My blog, This is not a Diet:
http://notsobigk.wordpress.com
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Ed Endicott

Joined: Sep 10
Posts: 140

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:51
Kate, I agree with you. I mentioned in another post somewhere that my first goal was to get the weight under control....and the next goal is to work on the finances. I'm reading quite a bit about frugality and how folks survived The Great Depression. One thing that is interesting is our diet has never had as much protein in it as it has today. Before (and during) the great depression, a typical "Southern Meal" was beans (usually pinto) with some corn bread amd some greens. I am consistently reading about how people should "eat more greens" over eating more meat if they want to save money.

That last sentence was the kicker....and I know it won't go over well because the first myth is the protein myth....the second myth is the "eating healthy is expensive" myth.

With relation to losing weight....I specifically did not follow an established "diet" aside from limiting intake because I wanted to do something I could continue doing after getting to the weight I wanted to be. The only thing I watched was fat intake and that was before the thread you added about "fat" and before I got off the cholesterol medication.

Alas, the best thing we can do is experiment on our own and find what works best for us. On weekends, when I have a PROTEIN shake for breakfast, I tend to get hungry about 10:00. The same thing happens when I eat oatmeal for breakfast. To me, there were only too obvious solutions - 1) wake up later so you can eat later, or 2) eat another small meal at 10:00. Both solutions work equally well.
BellaIntelec...

Joined: Oct 10
Posts: 91

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:56
K8yk, you pointed out one other thing I forgot to mention--Fat. I have also noticed how fat helps with satisfaction and keeping cravings at bay. But! not all sources of fats do this to me. I have especially noticed this since eating avocados. Avocados are high in fat but when I have it with a moderate serving of carbs and protein it really helps cut the cravings.

Overall, guys I just think balance is the key, especially from foods that are not processed. I also believe that each body is different. Some people need a higher protein diet than others. I just happen to find that a balance of all food types is better for me. I believe there actually diets out there that explain about the food needs of different body types.
sngglebnny

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 153

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Posted: 18 Mar 2011, 11:57
I'm not even going to read the article because I know what works for me now and what doesn't. I know that my blood glucose issues have decreased since I switched to a low carb/high protein way of eating. I also know that I don't have to get my protein from meat, and vegetables are a great addition and alternative.

There are health benefits to everything that is naturally edible and that is why God put them on the planet for us to consume. But we have to learn the balance that best benefits our body. I know that carbs give me quick-release energy, protein gives me slow-release energy, and healthy fats keep everything functioning. NOS, Gas, and 10W-30.

I like to keep a variety of options available. In sense, I let my body tell me what it wants: veggies, nuts and legumes, eggs, protein shake, chicken, turkey, steak?
Dieting is like religion. There are the basic rules that everyone should follow. The rest you personalize to a lifestyle for the best results.

Current Size: 14/16
Goal Size: 8/10
Goal Date: December 31, 2014



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