Protein Supplements

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sunnydelight

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 25

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 10:06
I'm sorta new to protein supplements and every day I learn something new. It appears that not all protein are created equal. I wanted to share what I found and am including excerpts from this website: http://www.smart-strength-training.com/casein-protein.html

Quote:
Casein vs. Whey Protein

The difference is clear between the effects of these two forms of protein. Whey protein is digested extremely quickly in comparison to casein, which means that most of it will be in excess. What I mean is, your body can only handle a given amount of protein at any given time. Having too high a concentration of amino acids in your blood will force your body to either store them as fat or to excrete them via the kidneys.

With casein protein, instead of having a spike of amino acids in the blood, a more controlled release of amino acids into the blood results. You’ll have the amino acids you need to build muscle long after your meal, preventing muscle wasting and promoting muscle growth.

The Nitrogen Balance

This can also be explained using your overall Nitrogen balance. In general, when your body is losing muscle mass (amino acids) through energy metabolism or excretion, you have a negative nitrogen balance (at least one Nitrogen atom is present in each amino acid). In other words, you’re losing more Nitrogen than you’re taking in, resulting in a negative Nitrogen balance.

Taking in casein protein is a way to equilibrate this Nitrogen balance and shift it towards the positive end. Your muscles will be less likely to lose mass since amino acids are being released slowly into the blood through the digestive tract. “Case in” point? More muscle growth, less muscle wasting during a short fast.

However, one advantage of whey protein is that muscular synthesis occurs much more quickly since there’s a surge of amino acids in the blood following ingestion.

The point I’m trying to make here is that you should use both sources of protein in moderation – too much whey protein and you’ll begin to lose muscle mass during a fast along with storing much of it as fat. Too much casein and your protein synthesis will be extremely slow.

So, the obvious conclusion is to use them both together in your protein supplements, shakes and normal diet. Don’t just take a whey protein shake or just a casein shake. This way, you’ll have a fast-acting protein that’s fantastic immediately following a workout along with a slow-acting protein (casein protein) that’ll prevent muscle wasting later on.

The main advantage of casein protein comes when you hit the sack. What happens to your body for that 7-8 hours you’re laying in bed at night? If you haven’t had any casein protein before bed, then chances are you may be losing some muscle mass. Why? Most of your muscle rebuilding occurs while you’re asleep, not during the day. Without casein protein, you’re liable to lose amino acids from another muscle source to rebuild the damaged muscle. Not good!

Taking in some whey protein before bed won’t really help either, since you’ll be without a source of amino acids for about 7 of your 8 hours of sleep (whey protein is completely digested in about an hour). On the other hand, casein protein continues its release of amino acids into the blood for about 6-8 hours following ingestion. Goodbye muscle wasting!

If you focus on one or the other, you’ll be losing some serious benefits!
Evil_Angel_S...

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 166

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 10:14
Thanks for sharing that info. I knew some of it but it's definitely a benefit to know that casein is better before bed than whey. Will have to get some casein protein powder next month along w/ more whey Very Happy
~*There is nothing harder than life, but nothing greater than living.*~
russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 12:05
http://spikediet.blogspot.com/2010/07/protein-protein-protein.html

This is my blog post on the 3 best types of protein powders and when to use them. The article you posted is great.

I also list my favorite brands.

Best time for Whey is in the morning and post workout

Casein and egg protein is great as a meal replacement and before bed.
The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

sunnydelight

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 25

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 13:41
Thanks for the blog post, russel!
sunnydelight

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 25

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 13:45
russellb97 wrote:
http://spikediet.blogspot.com/2010/07/protein-protein-protein.html

This is my blog post on the 3 best types of protein powders and when to use them. The article you posted is great.

I also list my favorite brands.

Best time for Whey is in the morning and post workout

Casein and egg protein is great as a meal replacement and before bed.


Russ:
Some of the research I've done shows that Optimum Nutrition casein protein is highly recommended. I wondered if you've had a chance to try it and what your comments are on that brand.

Thanks!
erin74kr

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 206

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 13:49
hey guys, I'm very new to weight training and have always been told that if you are overweight, protein supplementation will only make you bigger, and that it's better left to underweight people looking to only gain muscle. Is this true? I only have a very basic understanding of how it all works. This thread just sparked my curiousity.
SelinaMinus6...

Joined: May 09
Posts: 195

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 13:55
erin74kr wrote:
hey guys, I'm very new to weight training and have aways been told that if you are overweight, protein supplementation will only make you bigger, and that it's better left to underweight people looking to only gain muscle. Is this true? I only have a very basic understanding of how it all works. This thread just sparked my curiousity.


My Personal Trainer has encouraged protein suppliments because i sometimes find it hard to eat protein during the day- but she said its good because it helps you feel fuller for longer and it also promotes lean muscle so i shouldnt think it would matter if you are over weight as long as you are still losing weight. i sometimes use a protein bar to suppliment my protein intake and im still losing fine Smile
I have a blog Smile http://thewolfandthefox.blogspot.com/ not super diet related but a bit!!
sunnydelight

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 25

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 14:02
erin74kr wrote:
hey guys, I'm very new to weight training and have laways been told that if you are overweight, protein supplementation will only make you bigger, and that it's better left to underweight people looking to only gain muscle. Is this true? I only have a very basic understanding of how it all works. This thread just sparked my curiousity.


I think in general if you simply add more protein supplement to a dietary intake of maintenance calories, you will gain weight. The idea is to make sure you're keeping within your caloric limit while adding the supplements. When I added whey protein to my diet, I chose to cut out fat to limit my calories. I have not gained but lost fat while maintaining my muscle mass.
Evil_Angel_S...

Joined: Feb 10
Posts: 166

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 14:09
Erin, I think the protein supplements you've been told about weren't explained well to you. There are protein supplements out there for bulking up. Loaded w/ lots of calories & other supplements. But there are also protein supplements that you can use that aren't going to make you gain weight as long as you use them appropriately, as in meal replacement or w/ a small snack. Every protein powder I've ever had was less than 200 cals per serving. Just like food, if you have a ton of servings you'll gain weight. But there are other protein supplements that are meant for the sole purpose of gaining weight to gain muscle.

Part of the my success losing 160 lbs was using protein powder, pre & post workout. Due to my financial situation right now, it's not an option but hopefully I'll be getting some next month.

Another thing I was told along the way is that women typically can only absorb 30-35g of protein at once while men can absorb 35-40g at once. Anyone can debate this, I have no problem w/ that. I'd like to know what other think. But it's been a gauge of how much protein I can eat in a sitting that I've used for the last 5 yrs.
~*There is nothing harder than life, but nothing greater than living.*~
erin74kr

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 206

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 14:12
It makes sense that as long as you are factoring in the protein supplementation to your daily caloric intake, you would not gain weight. Thanks for the explanation guys. Smile
russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 14:21
erin74kr wrote:
hey guys, I'm very new to weight training and have always been told that if you are overweight, protein supplementation will only make you bigger, and that it's better left to underweight people looking to only gain muscle. Is this true? I only have a very basic understanding of how it all works. This thread just sparked my curiousity.


No that is a huge myth. No pun intended.

Muscle will make you look lean and also increase your metabolism. If you bulk up you will look bigger but in order to truly bulk up you need eat a lot of calories and you look bigger because of the gain of fat with the muscle.

Protein also has a high TEF-Thermic Effect of Food. For every calorie of protein you eat your body needs to use about 1/3 of those calories to just process it. For example to process 100 calories of protein your body needs 33 calories of energy.

So if you take 2 people one eating 2,000 calories with 20 grams of protein for the day, they will burn an extra 26 calories a day to process the protein (20 grams X 4 calories)=80 calories from protein divided by 3 [TEF] equals 26.6 calories.

Now the other person also eats 2,000 calories but 150 grams of protein (150 X 4 cals)=600 protein calories dived by the TEF of 3 equals 200 more calories burned.

200-26=174 X 365 days of the year =63,510 more calories burned through the Thermic Effect or 18 pounds of fat!

So 2 people both eating 2,000 calories, the one eating more protein would lose 18 more pounds in one year on the same calorie intake.

There's a lot of math there, but hopefully you can see the benefit of the TEF, also this does not included the added or maintained lean body mass which directly effects our metabolism.

My plan is 40% of our calories from both carbs and protein and 20% from fat, your calorie limit is your base metabolism and if you have that calorie deficit I promise you will not get bigger but leaner and healthier.

Also lifting weights is more effective for fat burning than cardio.

A good diet, high in protein combined with effective weight training are the 2 most important factors for burning fat and keeping it off.
The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 14:25
You are right, for women I recommend 20-30 grams post workout, and men 40 grams.

The more muscle you have the more protein you need.

This limit is for whey protein of course. You can have more grams of slower digesting protein like milk casein, eggs, or lean meat, but I still try to stay under 60 grams with my meals.
The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

erin74kr

Joined: Jul 10
Posts: 206

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 15:30
Mmmm, math! You know just how to get an accountant's interest. Very Happy Thanks Russell!
russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 15:35
erin74kr wrote:
Mmmm, math! You know just how to get an accountant's interest. Very Happy Thanks Russell!


LOL, I'm glad I love math and I like to use that to show of the Spike Diet works but I feel like when I go this route I simply lose people's attention. So I am very happy you have a math brain Laughing
The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

Naiomy

Joined: May 10
Posts: 244

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 15:49
erin74kr wrote:
Mmmm, math! You know just how to get an accountant's interest. Very Happy Thanks Russell!


as an accountant myself i was mezmerised by your info..lol... so i have been tinkering with the whey protein shake idea.. if i decide to get one.. i should use it after a work out? and if i'm trying to keep at 1200 calories a day (for example).. and work this into that limit .. i believe it was like 23 grams... basically... how would this benefit me ? i was trying to figure out the math and lost it..

esp if its 80 calories per serving?
Naiomy

Joined: May 10
Posts: 244

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 15:55
i may have answered my own question!.. i think i get it.. u mean daily protein grams .. not just for the shake... ok but i still don't know what is the benefit of drinking a whey protein shake post work out? why does it matter when you drink it?
an00bis

Joined: Jun 10
Posts: 642

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Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 16:21
I think russelb should definitely weigh in here, since he is more knowledgeable than I am, but here are some sources to read to answer that question.

http://www.powersupplements.com/protein.htm
http://www.intense-workout.com/post_workout.html
If you think my post is too abrasive, harsh, or offensive, you're:
A) Wrong.
B) Too sensitive.
C) Not going to receive an apology for pointing it out.
russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 16:24
Naiomy wrote:
i may have answered my own question!.. i think i get it.. u mean daily protein grams .. not just for the shake... ok but i still don't know what is the benefit of drinking a whey protein shake post work out? why does it matter when you drink it?


Hey Naiomy,

The benefit of whey protein post workout is recovery. The process of lifting weights tears muscle fibers the amino acids from the protein we eat rebuild those muscle fibers. Immediately post workout is the most efficient time for our body to begin recovery making whey protein so valuable. Whey protein because it is the quickest and most easily used protein.

A simple rule of thumb is have something with protein every time you eat. It helps maintain blood sugar and you get the added TEF-thermic effect from it.

My math numbers needed a key.

1 gram of protein equals 4 calories.

So if you eat something with 20 grams of protein, you ate 80 calories from protein.

The energy needed to process that protein which is known as the Thermic Effect is about 30-33% of the protein calories, so in this case you ate 80 protein calories and 26.6 calories needed to process it.

Now think of it this way if you did this 6 times a day, you would burn 160 calories daily just from protein intake. It adds up over time, and this doesn't count the many other benefits of protein.

All food has a TEF, but it's low like 2% for dietary fat, and around 7% for carbohydrates.

I know for a fact my high protein intake is a major reason why I have been able to transform my body the way I did. No doubts at all, because there was a switch that seamed to go off when I upped my protein intake to 40% of my daily calories. I recovered quicker, I built muscle, and I burned fat.

The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

russellb97

Joined: Mar 10
Posts: 524

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 16:30
an00bis wrote:
I think russelb should definitely weigh in here, since he is more knowledgeable than I am, but here are some sources to read to answer that question.

http://www.powersupplements.com/protein.htm
http://www.intense-workout.com/post_workout.html


Thanks, those articles are very good. Most bodybuilders have 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

This is too high for most of us, I get between 200-220 grams a day so I am in the 1 gram per pound group. The problem is weight should not determine protein intake but activity level and lean body mass should. If you lift weights 2-4 times per week you should shoot for the 40% of your daily calories from protein. If you are not lifting weights you would be fine at the 20-30% mark. Still well above FDA recommendation which are far too low.

The Spike Diet is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Diet-Russell-Branjord/dp/0615328768

Free Weight Loss Guide on Spiking Metabolism:
http://www.spike84.com/

"I Spike!"

Naiomy

Joined: May 10
Posts: 244

      quote  
Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 17:52
thank you so much for your detailed response!!! i'm considering a weight training program soon and have only been jogging primarily... so i guess that would be a good time to start..THANKS AGAIN!



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