How to ensure no muscle loss in Atkins

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smughal

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 11

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 00:46
I started atkins induction, Jan 20, i am doing good. But i don't want to loose muscle. So how can i ensure that during weight loss it will only fat loss and No or minimal muscle loss.
Mamachickpea

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 10

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 00:51
You need to lift weights - I do a class at my gym called body pump which is weightlifting to music. It s amazing what a difference it has made. Though not on Atkins I am sure all my weight loss is fat not muscle.
Mamachickpea
smughal

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 11

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 01:17
Will consider your suggestion, currently i am doing brisk walk for 45 min on daily basis
fredmugs

Joined: Jan 11
Posts: 382

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 06:20
Mamachickpea wrote:
You need to lift weights - I do a class at my gym called body pump which is weightlifting to music. It s amazing what a difference it has made. Though not on Atkins I am sure all my weight loss is fat not muscle.


That and make sure you eat enough protein to feed those muscles.
Pain is a by-product of a good time.
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 676

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 07:26
We always will lose some muscle.
a good thing would not be to starve yourself. Follow the rule of the diet and let ketosis work to burn your fat. So that means keeping carb and protein low and fat high
Mamachickpea

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 10

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 08:17
smughal wrote:
Will consider your suggestion, currently i am doing brisk walk for 45 min on daily basis

In that case is there any possibility that you can incorporate any uphill sections on your walks. I think this adds resistance and will increase muscle strength.
Mamachickpea
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 08:49
The best ways to minimize muscle loss while losing mass (that don't involve androgens) are the same for Atkins as any other diet:

* Keep your calorie deficit in check - the leaner you are to start, the lower your calorie deficit should be. In general, the faster your weight loss, the more you are risking lean mass loss in addition to the fat;

* Get sufficient protein in your diet. This shouldn't be an issue if you're following Atkins, though; and

* Lift weights. Preferably as part of a structured program that is based around compound lifts, and isn't just curling 3 lb. hand weights 400 times.
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 676

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 09:06
Not sure if I agree with you guys
the best way to do Atkins is to eat. Not to worry about calories.
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 10:26
liv001 wrote:
Not sure if I agree with you guys
the best way to do Atkins is to eat. Not to worry about calories.


The original question was specifically about minimizing muscle loss, though, not how to follow Atkins. They're not inconsistent, fortunately.

Whether or not someone counts calories as a dietary strategy, the size of the energy deficit will be relevant to lean mass loss. See, e.g.:

A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia.

Quote:
A limit on the maximum energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia is deduced from experimental data of underfed subjects maintaining moderate activity levels and is found to have a value of (290+/-25) kJ/kgd. A dietary restriction which exceeds the limited capability of the fat store to compensate for the energy deficiency results in an immediate decrease in the fat free mass (FFM). In cases of a less severe dietary deficiency, the FFM will not be depleted.


Recommending a small energy deficit doesn't mean that she has to count calories. But it does mean that if she restricts her intake too much while eating ad lib, she will be inviting unnecessary lean mass loss. As a practical matter, this is unlikely on Atkins because it invites eating ad lib to satiety, so it's probably a moot point.

smughal

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 11

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 10:53
So my calender is here, i m carefully counting my carbs to keep them below 20gm, what i ate is 50-60% protein n approx 30% fat, do i need to increase fat? My cholestrol levels r perfect but i try to avoid fats. My aim is to reduce weight but save muscle so that my metabolism remains gud, also my measurements say 30% body fat, i want to be in 20% body fat range
msawyer13

Joined: May 10
Posts: 126

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 10:55
I wouldn't go so far as to say you need to lift WEIGHTS, especially if you don't already lift weights.

But, if you were to incorporate some amount of resistance training into your exercise, it will help maintain your muscle mass. If you don't already do this, you will probably gain/tone your muscles.

Either way, even just incorporating Push-Ups, Assisted Pull-Ups, Crunches and Squats into your weekly routine would be good for you.
smughal

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 11

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 10:56
Mamachickpea wrote:
smughal wrote:
Will consider your suggestion, currently i am doing brisk walk for 45 min on daily basis

In that case is there any possibility that you can incorporate any uphill sections on your walks. I think this adds resistance and will increase muscle strength.


M planning to start jogging once i get in to 95 kg range, as currently m 102 kg and joging may stress my legs
msawyer13

Joined: May 10
Posts: 126

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 11:04
What Nimm's quote says is that if you have a calorie deficit of more than 290 kJ/kgd you can't lose weight without losing Fat Free Mass.

If my math is right, this equates to 31,500 calories/pound per day. So for me, (31500)/170 = 185 calories/day.

I know from experience that I could run a deficit of more than 185 calories/day and not lose muscle mass, although I was doing resistance training during that time. So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, I don't agree or don't have enough information about that study...
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 11:12
msawyer13 wrote:
What Nimm's quote says is that if you have a calorie deficit of more than 290 kJ/kgd you can't lose weight without losing Fat Free Mass.

If my math is right, this equates to 31,500 calories/pound per day. So for me, (31500)/170 = 185 calories/day.

I know from experience that I could run a deficit of more than 185 calories/day and not lose muscle mass, although I was doing resistance training during that time. So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, I don't agree or don't have enough information about that study...


The paper was a meta-analysis of other studies, and concluded that an energy deficit of more than 290kJ/kg of body fat, per day, is an apparent upper limit on the rate that energy can be transferred from body fat - at least for the populations in the underlying studies (a big qualifier).

290kJ per kg of fat mass per day (give or take) is roughly 31.5 calories per pound of body fat.

So if a 200 lb person has 25% body fat, that would be 50 pounds of body fat. Which in turn would mean - if the paper is correct - that person would not be risking much lean mass loss up to a daily calorie deficit of 1575. Not hard to stay within that limit.

If you're calculating 185 calories per day, that would mean you have only about 6 pounds of body fat.
smughal

Joined: Jan 13
Posts: 11

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 11:16
msawyer13 wrote:
What Nimm's quote says is that if you have a calorie deficit of more than 290 kJ/kgd you can't lose weight without losing Fat Free Mass.

If my math is right, this equates to 31,500 calories/pound per day. So for me, (31500)/170 = 185 calories/day.

I know from experience that I could run a deficit of more than 185 calories/day and not lose muscle mass, although I was doing resistance training during that time. So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, I don't agree or don't have enough information about that study...


Means atkins+resistance training will be best fit for loosing wieght while keeping muscles
msawyer13

Joined: May 10
Posts: 126

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 11:20
Ahh, I see what I did wrong, I did kg of body weight not fat mass. But, I still don't think our numbers match up.

290 kJ = 69282 calories/kg
0.45 kg in a pound, so 31176 calories/lb

In your example, a 200 pound person with 50 pounds of body fat:
31176 / 50 = 623 calories per day

That math makes sense. 1575 calories per day sounds WAY to high. Did I miss something else?
Nimm

Joined: Dec 10
Posts: 669

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Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 12:25
msawyer13 wrote:
Ahh, I see what I did wrong, I did kg of body weight not fat mass. But, I still don't think our numbers match up.

290 kJ = 69282 calories/kg
0.45 kg in a pound, so 31176 calories/lb

In your example, a 200 pound person with 50 pounds of body fat:
31176 / 50 = 623 calories per day

That math makes sense. 1575 calories per day sounds WAY to high. Did I miss something else?


Yes. You should multiply the calories by the pounds, not divide them.

31176 calories per pound of body fat x 50 lbs of body fat = 1,558,800 cal = 1558kcal.

1560 may sound like a lot, and it is - but 50 lbs of fat is a lot of stored energy. And moreover, this is still just an observation - it hasn't been specifically subject to controlled testing, where factors like dietary protein, gender/hormones, and amount and type of activity will almost certainly play a role. It can be worth doing the math if you're relatively lean starting out and very concerned about maximizing lean mass - but for most people, the takeaway lesson is simply "don't starve."
liv001

Joined: Oct 09
Posts: 676

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 12:36
If you want to balance calories as a way of eating that is fine
And judging by the discussion it seems where you want to go.

Form an Atkins point of view you are eating too low fat diet
There were virtually no sources of fat in your det. Typically on Atkins we have 65 % of calories coming from fat. So the eating is not really Atkins.
Also you seem ot have high carbs days. The result of this is that you are not really fat burning using ketposis.
However, again. This is just a fyi.

I will be following the information on muscles and calories and protein.
msawyer13

Joined: May 10
Posts: 126

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 13:01
Nimm wrote:

Yes. You should multiply the calories by the pounds, not divide them.

31176 calories per pound of body fat x 50 lbs of body fat = 1,558,800 cal = 1558kcal.

1560 may sound like a lot, and it is - but 50 lbs of fat is a lot of stored energy. And moreover, this is still just an observation - it hasn't been specifically subject to controlled testing, where factors like dietary protein, gender/hormones, and amount and type of activity will almost certainly play a role. It can be worth doing the math if you're relatively lean starting out and very concerned about maximizing lean mass - but for most people, the takeaway lesson is simply "don't starve."


Doh! Thanks again, stinking 2nd unit for day in the denominator and thinking in calories not kCals screwed me up. Mad Mad at myself, usually I don't get the math wrong!

Anyway, now that I have it all straight, a simple conversion for people here is to multiply your pounds of body fat by 32, for your maximum recommended daily caloric deficit.

I agree for many weight losers this isn't a big deal. But, for people who are already fit and are maybe trying to lost those last few pounds, knowing that running a calorie deficit too large could hurt your LBM is useful.

For example, a 120lb active woman at 20% body fat who wants to get to 15% shouldn't run a deficit of more than ~750 kCals. One calculator says that a heavily active 30 year old woman at 120lbs would maintain weight at about 2500 kCals/day. So, this person probably shouldn't aim for 1,500 and assume that it's a smart choice. Based on this study, anyway...

Sorry OP for hijacking the thread with math! Very Happy

ebivr

Joined: Jun 08
Posts: 516

      quote  
Posted: 13 Feb 2013, 16:42
I read somewhere that the body is incapable of losing more than 3 lbs of body fat a week & that everything else is just lean muscle & water???


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